Using Guard as meat shields

[Ion Raptor]

Well after reading Gent's post about getting a Baneblade, I decided to go through with my plan of getting a bunch of traitor Imperial Guard for use in Apoc games.

But what to get? I was thinking about just getting tons of troops and using them as a screening force for my Thousand Sons.....that sounds like something Chaos would do but I can't help but think there has to be a way to make them at least a bit effective while still not relying on them at all if they should all bite the dust .

[word bearers 81007]

umm they can have the same equipement, mostly, as regular imp guard so they wouldn't be totally useless with there heavy weapons and such.

[Ion Raptor]

Yes but I want to minimize the points I use on guard and maximize it on my real force behind the game , the Thousand sons.

However I do want the Guard to be able to kill things if they are over looked, not having an Imperial Guard codex I don't know what to really do, any tips on how to min/max my Guard units without spending much points on them?

[word bearers 81007]

you'll need the eye of terror codex to have the traitor guard rules. there not that expensive if you are just fielding meat not tanks.

[Lord Commander Erus]

Originally Posted by word bearers 81007

you'll need the eye of terror codex to have the traitor guard rules. there not that expensive if you are just fielding meat not tanks.

EoT 'dex is for Lost and the Damned. You can make 'traitor' guard w/ the Guard Codex.

[word bearers 81007]

sometimes i forget that. aneway i still say more meat less tanks will keep the cost low.

[Dragoon King]

Ha, another player wanting Traitor Guard! I suggest using the IG dex, not LATD. You shouldn't overlook the IG armour, it is some of the best in the game. Also, being a 1k Sons player, you might wanna think about getting some specialized CC fighters.

[Ion Raptor]

Perhaps several squads of troops with 3-4 heavy weapons spread between them with 2 Leman Russes for support?

That's pretty much all I'm going to want to paint anyway

[Dragoon King]

Originally Posted by Ion Raptor

Perhaps several squads of troops with 3-4 heavy weapons spread between them with 2 Leman Russes for support?

That's pretty much all I'm going to want to paint anyway

Sounds good. That should compliment your 1k Sons just fine. I still suggest you look for some CC squads, especially if playing against nids. I'm not sure about the stats for Orgryns, but maybe you should check them out. Give you a good excuse to get some of the FW renegade ones!

[Ion Raptor]

Perhaps but I have my Raptors for that, unless you think that Ogyrn will be able to keep up and be worth it over another squad of meat shields

[Dragoon King]

Originally Posted by Ion Raptor

Perhaps but I have my Raptors for that, unless you think that Ogyrn will be able to keep up and be worth it over another squad of meat shields

Duh, I completely forgot about Raptors! I would gear them solely for CC, using 2 Plasma Pistols and twin LC for the champ.

[Ion Raptor]

Would Basilisks be a better idea then Leman Russes? That way I don't have to worry about them, just park and shoot.

My whole ideas for the guard is to not worry about where they are or if they die, and to just move them forward and draw fire. Which is why I want a lot of cheap bodies.

[Dan296]

i would go with the good ol leman russ rather then a basalisk. russes have more weapons (sponsons, hull weapon, B-cannon, pintle weapon) and have heavier armour, while the bassy is open topped and easily killed.


if you want some close combat support, ogryns would be the way to go. however, what i would do is get a chaos spawn box and mix n match the bits. that way they look like they are on the verge of spawn-dom. plus, the new plastic ogryns are easier to convert! woot!
ogryns are tougher and have more wounds then raptors, and what you can do is keep them with your guardsmen to protect them from assault, and then once the ogryns are engaged the raptors can move up and deliver the death blow.

[Ion Raptor]

Ah thank you, always good to have words from the wise.

[Steellegioncpt]

for the record the use of guardsmen does not work as meat shields.. or rather it worked perfectly back in 3rd ed. when you couldnt shoot past an enemy unit. Now they took that away..

btw mos def go with the Russ over the basy. However.. the basy isnt a bad thing its really powerful Cheap support that sits in the back and knocks those MEG's to heck

[Ion Raptor]

You can't prevent them from firing, but doesn't it add a modifier to it?

[GriplionGremlin]

nope just a leadership check. pass and fire at what you want. and vehs can always ignore units to shoot what they want.

NOW if you're putting your guard with chimeras and march the guys next to/around the tank then the tank can block los but it blocks your own guys as well.

being an iron warriors players as well i'm partial to the basi but definately look into the varients of the russ. also some sentinals would be good too. light anti-tank/troop choice and the scout move helps you get them into place right away!

[Ion Raptor]

Well that sucks, in that case it would be dumb to not at least equip them properly in case the enemy decides to over look them for my Thousand Sons.

What do you think the best heavy weapons would be? Mortars? since it's Apoc I wouldn't have a lot to worry about scatter since chances are it's going to hit someone.

[GriplionGremlin]

motors are good against troops but if you're using this force for apoc you're prob gonna go against a lot of vehs and perhaps some super heavies and/or titans. you need some punch power too! str7+ and the more shots the better.

[Ion Raptor]

how about this, since I bought that amazing guard deal let's try and form an army around it.

Bassy sits in back with tons of mortar teams and rains hell from above, Leman Russ moves forward with 3 guard squads supported by autocannon and heavy bolter heavy weapons squads. and last but not least what Tzeentch army is complete without tons of psychers? I'll have 5-6 of them running around with my army in addition to my TS Sorcerers

what do you think?

[masterofweirdness]

If you want mass amounts of Guard... why not conscripts? Dirt cheap, throw in flamers, and who cares what their BS and LD is, as long as you have enough models in the squad... and if you want to be really sure... add a Commisar.

however... your other idea sounds good...

Me, for some reason... I like the idea of Horde armies... I'd never do one (to much painting! ) But, I think it sounds really cool.

[Ion Raptor]

I was going to do the horde idea, until two factors hit me, if they decided to just overlook my guard units I'm throwing at them they can destroy my Sons and then simply mop them up afterwards........and then of course I got that sweet deal which left me with a lot of models i wouldn't have used otherwise.

[masterofweirdness]

Originally Posted by Ion Raptor

I was going to do the horde idea, until two factors hit me, if they decided to just overlook my guard units I'm throwing at them they can destroy my Sons and then simply mop them up afterwards........and then of course I got that sweet deal which left me with a lot of models i wouldn't have used otherwise.

Hmm... but 50 guardsmen, even at BS2, when rapid firing will kill somehting

Like I said though, your idea sounds great.

[Ion Raptor]

Originally Posted by masterofweirdness

Hmm... but 50 guardsmen, even at BS2, when rapid firing will kill somehting

Like I said though, your idea sounds great.

Yeah but remember it's Apoc, so there's gonna be some crazy stuff out there, probably a bunch of tanks..............plus i'm kind of making any excuse possible to prevent myself from having to paint hundreds of Guardsmen (I took a commission job last year to paint 270 some guardsmen and it killed me)

[Ides]

Originally Posted by Ion Raptor

(I took a commission job last year to paint 270 some guardsmen and it killed me)

I can see how that might curb your enthusiasm...what if you used Orks as meatshields too to vary it a bit?