Did we get f***ed or what !??! - 40K Terra

Steellegioncpt · 12-30-2006

Yea I know none of the rules you may of seen on the website's rumor section may be offical, but it seems to me they are. Im sure anyone reading this is fimilar with the new rules so I will only list the ones that upset me the most.

First off-
Combat squads being restricted to 5 OR 10 men squads and NOTHING in between! and only taking heavy weapons in the 10 men squad.

Secondly-
we lost our jink save I loved that sae and now its gone

thats really all I got and Im a bit too ranted out to really argue, but I hope more posts will intense things up

experiment 626 · 12-30-2006

gw is obviously wanting to put a stop to min/maxing and its evil ways!

while it might seem bad right now, hopefully the other special rules for the DA's will still of-set this new squad set-up...
the main downside i see is that smaller squads are very bad for scoring unit purposes... (even numbered squads are what you want to aim for!)

but, you can still play deathwing and/or ravenwing armies...

cheers!

Ikarus · 12-30-2006

It just creates a really 'different' SM army, unlike the current or 'old' DA codex I should say, which is really really close to 3rd edition vanilla marines on crack.

=D

Steellegioncpt · 12-30-2006

thats true, but the down side is that the only even number scoring unit you can have is 10, and 10 marines is far too expensive...

however 10 marines is a b to kill.

r4wr89 · 12-30-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steellegioncpt

thats true, but the down side is that the only even number scoring unit you can have is 10, and 10 marines is far too expensive...

however 10 marines is a b to kill.

okay i'm not really sure why they would do a thing like only give you 2 choices for squad sizes. what a horrible move.
bleh.

i hope the next codices don't completely screw us marines over..

-ant

MSguardsmen · 12-30-2006

ah there just trying to make it so that space marines are no longer b**** armies. you know make it harder to play so you cant get away with as much.

besides i really dont want to hear any b'ing from you regular space marine players when im paying 25 points just to lay down 1 regular soldier in the grey knight army.

r4wr89 · 12-30-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by MSguardsmen

ah there just trying to make it so that space marines are no longer b**** armies. you know make it harder to play so you cant get away with as much.

besides i really dont want to hear any b'ing from you regular space marine players when im paying 25 points just to lay down 1 regular soldier in the grey knight army.

haha if anyone has the right to be whiny it's the guys over at GK, that's true, lol
well then again, the emperor's work is not always easy...or cheap :]

as for making the SMs/DAs harder to play, lol GW always babies the marines, i'm surprised that they would pull a move like that..but oh well. i'm happy cause we get new devs! no more shelling out ten bucks for a metal guy! woohoo!

-ant

Brother_Ambrose · 01-06-2007

It's just a rumour...I doubt its true...

experiment 626 · 01-06-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brother_Ambrose

It's just a rumour...I doubt its true...

no, it is true! our local gw store manager has a had a quick peek at the new codex!

he didn't say the reason why the DA's organisation has gone this way, (he didn't get much more than a quick glance!) but feels it's part the DA's nature of fighting in the 'old style' closer to how the original legions worked... (best guess really!)

the 5-man squads will be expensive for what you get, and can't take a heavy weapon.
full 10-man squads will however be the same cost as always, and can be split before a game into two 5-man squads during deployment... (quite a tasty prospect really!)

ravenwing & deathwing armies are still playable - you simply *must* include the 'master of _____wing' as your mandetory hq...

overall, yes it's very different and extream, but it basically just comes down to the fact that gw is;
a) trying to stop serve min/maxing
b) wanting the DA's to have their "own" fighting style

cheers!

Khadhar'phak · 01-06-2007

What's this about 5 man squads or 10 man squads?

experiment 626 · 01-06-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Khadhar'phak

What's this about 5 man squads or 10 man squads?

from what i've been told, DA's only get either 5 man 'combat' squads or full 10 man squads...
full sized squads however can be broken down into 2 squads during deployment.

cheers!

fearlessgod · 01-06-2007

I saw the same rumors on B&C and Warseer. At first glance, the changes seem extreme. Then I started thinking about them, especially the 5/10 man squads. I seem to remenber that a couple editions ago, you could break down a 10 man squad into two 5-man squads, one with a heavy weapon, one with a special weapon. So it seems that they just brought that rule back (just like making Librarians a better choice in this edition). All in all, I think the rule is fine. People will adjust and make it work. There may be some complaining (remembering the demse of the "rhino rush" for example), but it will all shake out.

~fearlessgod~

experiment 626 · 01-06-2007

i think one thing we're going to be seeing alot of, is DA dev squad with 2 heavy bolters & 2 lascannons...
essencially you'll get two small dev squads for the price of one!

cheers!

Brother_Ambrose · 01-06-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by experiment 626

no, it is true! our local gw store manager has a had a quick peek at the new codex!

he didn't say the reason why the DA's organisation has gone this way, (he didn't get much more than a quick glance!) but feels it's part the DA's nature of fighting in the 'old style' closer to how the original legions worked... (best guess really!)

the 5-man squads will be expensive for what you get, and can't take a heavy weapon.
full 10-man squads will however be the same cost as always, and can be split before a game into two 5-man squads during deployment... (quite a tasty prospect really!)

ravenwing & deathwing armies are still playable - you simply *must* include the 'master of _____wing' as your mandetory hq...

overall, yes it's very different and extream, but it basically just comes down to the fact that gw is;
a) trying to stop serve min/maxing
b) wanting the DA's to have their "own" fighting style

cheers!

My local store manager said a lot of things about the new empire army book for WHFB that was untrue to get me to order a army deal... We'll see in February. I could see it happening since the templars had their own unique squad configuration, but if they neuter them like they did with the templars I'm repainting/selling/trading.

experiment 626 · 01-07-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brother_Ambrose

My local store manager said a lot of things about the new empire army book for WHFB that was untrue to get me to order a army deal... We'll see in February. I could see it happening since the templars had their own unique squad configuration, but if they neuter them like they did with the templars I'm repainting/selling/trading.

our local store's manager is only a temp because he's really a regional manager! (so he's much higher-up than most store employies, which is why he's been able to actually look through the new codex!)

while it's very different, i don't think it's quite as bad as it might seem at first...
devs are going to be extreamly popular now for DA players! 10-man tactical squads will be a no-brainer and are difficult to remove from objectives. not to mention the ability to split squads during deployment will offer some interesting tactics and still allow flexability between heavy/special weapons... (the traditional flamer + rocket launcher is playable now!)

cheers!

Steellegioncpt · 02-11-2007

I also hear that the Rhino is going down in points cost as well. 5 more points then an Ork trukk.

r4wr89 · 02-11-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by experiment 626

our local store's manager is only a temp because he's really a regional manager! (so he's much higher-up than most store employies, which is why he's been able to actually look through the new codex!)

while it's very different, i don't think it's quite as bad as it might seem at first...
devs are going to be extreamly popular now for DA players! 10-man tactical squads will be a no-brainer and are difficult to remove from objectives. not to mention the ability to split squads during deployment will offer some interesting tactics and still allow flexability between heavy/special weapons... (the traditional flamer + rocket launcher is playable now!)

cheers!

idon't know about you guys, but this whole splitting full tactical squads thing excites me...i love the idea of having more infantry squads, especially because the ten mans only take 1 slot on the FOC, or at least i'm assuming they do...effectively the number of squads just got doubled, sort of..right ? :]
-ant

experiment 626 · 02-11-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by r4wr89

idon't know about you guys, but this whole splitting full tactical squads thing excites me...i love the idea of having more infantry squads, especially because the ten mans only take 1 slot on the FOC, or at least i'm assuming they do...effectively the number of squads just got doubled, sort of..right ? :]
-ant

yep! a 10-man squad is 1 choice on the FOC as always, so being able to split squads is a HUGE advantage, especially in games that rely solely on scoring units!!! (god, i'm going to hate playing DA armies at astro now!!!)

a full ravenwing squad with all options will take up 1 fast attack choice, but can be split into 3 seperate units during deployment!!!
(bike squad, 1 attack bike & 1 land speeder!

)

cheers!

02-11-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by experiment 626

yep! a 10-man squad is 1 choice on the FOC as always, so being able to split squads is a HUGE advantage, especially in games that rely solely on scoring units!!! (god, i'm going to hate playing DA armies at astro now!!!)

a full ravenwing squad with all options will take up 1 fast attack choice, but can be split into 3 seperate units during deployment!!!
(bike squad, 1 attack bike & 1 land speeder!

)

cheers!

Ahhhh... I think I just found a new idea... Damn you Dark Angels! DAMN YOU GW!

r4wr89 · 02-11-2007

LOL. holy cow, so effectively the fast attack choices for ravenwing triples, correct? ooooh man this sounds really interesting actually, haha. while it might not be a good idea to split squads up too much, imagine a wall of fast attack...haha :]

-ant

Greymane · 02-25-2007

[quote=experiment 626;10371]our local store's manager is only a temp because he's really a regional manager! (so he's much higher-up than most store employies, which is why he's been able to actually look through the new codex!)

while it's very different, i don't think it's quite as bad as it might seem at first...
devs are going to be extreamly popular now for DA players! 10-man tactical squads will be a no-brainer and are difficult to remove from objectives. not to mention the ability to split squads during deployment will offer some interesting tactics and still allow flexability between heavy/special weapons... (the traditional flamer + rocket launcher is playable now!)

>> Hooray, someone actually looking at how this makes the army "fluffy". They lost intractable/stubborn, but now fearless, on a 10 man squad, who, in a dark angel type of way, wil stand on an objective, and be a c!"£ to move.
To many people see "maybe" in codex and start biznitchin about it before they actually think about it. Adapt people, its not the list thats weak, its the general!!

Kbaughb · 03-03-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greymane

>> Hooray, someone actually looking at how this makes the army "fluffy". They lost intractable/stubborn, but now fearless, on a 10 man squad, who, in a dark angel type of way, wil stand on an objective, and be a c!"£ to move.
To many people see "maybe" in codex and start biznitchin about it before they actually think about it. Adapt people, its not the list thats weak, its the general!!

Exactly! I'm with ya man! If you are really as good as you say you are, you should be able to change your fighting style and tactics at the drop of a hat!

masterofweirdness · 03-03-2007

What happens is that you are "good" against the "current" armies... and then you get mad because GW changes things around (honestly, I'm glad... this way all the SM chapters w/ codexes will be very different).

However, I don't like the what GW is doing to the DA.... to me, its to "elite" and "we're the first, therefore the best,"

I like my DIY marines... cleanse and purify has to be the best trait of all time.

12-30-2006	#1 (permalink)
Steellegioncpt Each Shot Kills Spam (She never misses) Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Downers Grove IL Posts: 2,052 Rep Power: 4 Thanks: 55 Thanked 114 Times in 55 Posts	Did we get fed or what !??!* Yea I know none of the rules you may of seen on the website's rumor section may be offical, but it seems to me they are. Im sure anyone reading this is fimilar with the new rules so I will only list the ones that upset me the most. First off- Combat squads being restricted to 5 OR 10 men squads and NOTHING in between! and only taking heavy weapons in the 10 men squad. Secondly- we lost our jink save I loved that sae and now its gone thats really all I got and Im a bit too ranted out to really argue, but I hope more posts will intense things up __________________ Steellegioncpt's Tale of X Gamers Not just a Tale but a Legend

12-30-2006	#2 (permalink)
experiment 626 Filthy, Dirty Radical Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: lost in a blizzard, somewhere near toronto! Posts: 3,056 Rep Power: 4 Thanks: 38 Thanked 281 Times in 205 Posts	gw is obviously wanting to put a stop to min/maxing and its evil ways! while it might seem bad right now, hopefully the other special rules for the DA's will still of-set this new squad set-up... the main downside i see is that smaller squads are very bad for scoring unit purposes... (even numbered squads are what you want to aim for!) but, you can still play deathwing and/or ravenwing armies... cheers! __________________ "Who are you to question my methods?! A 'Puritan' is simply a coward who hides behind a veil of pretended faith and denounces his loyal brother as a traitor out of simple jealousy!" - Inquisitor Odion

12-30-2006	#3 (permalink)
Ikarus God-Emperor Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Seattle, Washington Posts: 1,590 Rep Power: 2 Thanks: 68 Thanked 374 Times in 139 Posts Blog Entries: 3	It just creates a really 'different' SM army, unlike the current or 'old' DA codex I should say, which is really really close to 3rd edition vanilla marines on crack. =D __________________ Ask not what the Emperor can do for you, but what you can do for the Emperor. BLOOD ANGELS 2k - Angels of Angryz!!

12-30-2006	#4 (permalink)
Steellegioncpt Each Shot Kills Spam (She never misses) Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Downers Grove IL Posts: 2,052 Rep Power: 4 Thanks: 55 Thanked 114 Times in 55 Posts	thats true, but the down side is that the only even number scoring unit you can have is 10, and 10 marines is far too expensive... however 10 marines is a b to kill. __________________ Steellegioncpt's Tale of X Gamers Not just a Tale but a Legend

12-30-2006	#6 (permalink)
MSguardsmen Corporal Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Titan Posts: 406 Rep Power: 2 Thanks: 2 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	ah there just trying to make it so that space marines are no longer b**** armies. you know make it harder to play so you cant get away with as much. besides i really dont want to hear any b'ing from you regular space marine players when im paying 25 points just to lay down 1 regular soldier in the grey knight army. __________________

01-06-2007	#8 (permalink)
Brother_Ambrose Corporal Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: GTA, Ontario, Canada Posts: 253 Rep Power: 2 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 1 Post	It's just a rumour...I doubt its true... __________________

01-06-2007	#10 (permalink)
Khadhar'phak Trooper Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Southend, Essex, England. Originally from Greenock, Renfrewshire, Scotland Posts: 77 Rep Power: 0 Thanks: 1 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	What's this about 5 man squads or 10 man squads? __________________ O'er the Hills and O'er the Main, Through Flanders, Portugal and Spain. King George commands and we obey! Over the hills, and far away...

01-06-2007	#12 (permalink)
fearlessgod Primer Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Maryland, USA Posts: 44 Rep Power: 0 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I saw the same rumors on B&C and Warseer. At first glance, the changes seem extreme. Then I started thinking about them, especially the 5/10 man squads. I seem to remenber that a couple editions ago, you could break down a 10 man squad into two 5-man squads, one with a heavy weapon, one with a special weapon. So it seems that they just brought that rule back (just like making Librarians a better choice in this edition). All in all, I think the rule is fine. People will adjust and make it work. There may be some complaining (remembering the demse of the "rhino rush" for example), but it will all shake out. ~fearlessgod~ __________________ Courage and Honor!

01-06-2007	#13 (permalink)
experiment 626 Filthy, Dirty Radical Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: lost in a blizzard, somewhere near toronto! Posts: 3,056 Rep Power: 4 Thanks: 38 Thanked 281 Times in 205 Posts	i think one thing we're going to be seeing alot of, is DA dev squad with 2 heavy bolters & 2 lascannons... essencially you'll get two small dev squads for the price of one! cheers! __________________ "Who are you to question my methods?! A 'Puritan' is simply a coward who hides behind a veil of pretended faith and denounces his loyal brother as a traitor out of simple jealousy!" - Inquisitor Odion

02-11-2007	#16 (permalink)
Steellegioncpt Each Shot Kills Spam (She never misses) Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Downers Grove IL Posts: 2,052 Rep Power: 4 Thanks: 55 Thanked 114 Times in 55 Posts	I also hear that the Rhino is going down in points cost as well. 5 more points then an Ork trukk. __________________ Steellegioncpt's Tale of X Gamers Not just a Tale but a Legend

02-25-2007	#21 (permalink)
Greymane Conscript Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Scotland Posts: 12 Rep Power: 0 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	[quote=experiment 626;10371]our local store's manager is only a temp because he's really a regional manager! (so he's much higher-up than most store employies, which is why he's been able to actually look through the new codex!) while it's very different, i don't think it's quite as bad as it might seem at first... devs are going to be extreamly popular now for DA players! 10-man tactical squads will be a no-brainer and are difficult to remove from objectives. not to mention the ability to split squads during deployment will offer some interesting tactics and still allow flexability between heavy/special weapons... (the traditional flamer + rocket launcher is playable now!) >> Hooray, someone actually looking at how this makes the army "fluffy". They lost intractable/stubborn, but now fearless, on a 10 man squad, who, in a dark angel type of way, wil stand on an objective, and be a c!"£ to move. To many people see "maybe" in codex and start biznitchin about it before they actually think about it. Adapt people, its not the list thats weak, its the general!! __________________ >>May Russ piss in your beer!!