Apoc VDR question

[SteveBerenyi]

I am building a Phoenix Destroyer Flyer, this is the question

If i Coax a Prism Cannon to a Prism Cannon, does it work like 2 prism cannons firing together?

here is the setup:



Does this equate (as i think it does) to the desired 4x dual prism cannon shots?

and is this a viable (for the cost as it was produced with VDR) addition to my army?

[Lord Commander Erus]

Originally Posted by SteveBerenyi

I am building a Phoenix Destroyer Flyer, this is the question

If i Coax a Prism Cannon to a Prism Cannon, does it work like 2 prism cannons firing together?

here is the setup:



Does this equate (as i think it does) to the desired 4x dual prism cannon shots?

and is this a viable (for the cost as it was produced with VDR) addition to my army?

IMHO you need to MAJORLY unload some options.. Too much buck, not enough bang. Not sure where to go as i'm not sure exactly what you want.

[DeAd_cOmMaNdO]

holy cheese batman!

way too expensive

and that weapon would be huge... a gatling prism cannon?

id go for one on each wing instead. much more reaslistic and cooler looking if you ask me

[SteveBerenyi]

well, i was not looking for gatling, but 4 pie plates of death. perhaps lose some aromor as it has the eldar field?

perhaps it is too much?

[DeAd_cOmMaNdO]

too heavy for an eldar flier i think

[Heroka Vendile]

A co-axial weapon is always of a different type to the main weapon - if you want two of the same, then they are twin-linked, as it states in the VDR.

And is 8 Prism Cannons really necessary? Surely four would get the desired affect, without having to twin-link/co-axial/gatling anything?

Why not just use the exact same armour stats as a standard Phoenix Bomber?

[Gregor Xenos]

Originally Posted by Heroka Vendile

A co-axial weapon is always of a different type to the main weapon - if you want two of the same, then they are twin-linked,

This is true in REAL APPLICATIONS also:

an M1A1 has the main cannon co-axed to the 30mm *they both AIM at the same target, but cannot fire simultainously*
a standard AA battery has Twin-linked 30mm guns *both aim at same point AND fire simultaniously*

Warhammer rules should reflect this.

[Heroka Vendile]

well they don't exactly, the co-axial gun can be fired at the same target as the main gun every turn. In 40K terms co-axial is basically a double-weapon.

[SteveBerenyi]

well, i can see the point of that, but as twin linking them gives the same effect that i am looking for... it drops my points from 630 to 540

Thanks for that!

oh and herkona, gw is eperimenting with a combined fire table for the Fire Prism beyond 2 so from what i've heard 8 of them give you....

160" Range S7 AP2 Heavy1 Twin Linked (re-roll scatter) 15" Radius Blast that rerolls wounds and catches the air on fire in it's blast on a 4+

you can see why i want 8

[Heroka Vendile]

that's just... nasty.
meh, t'is what apocalypse is meant for tho, mass destruction.

[wolfpack]

Originally Posted by SteveBerenyi

I am building a Phoenix Destroyer Flyer, this is the question

If i Coax a Prism Cannon to a Prism Cannon, does it work like 2 prism cannons firing together?

here is the setup:



Does this equate (as i think it does) to the desired 4x dual prism cannon shots?

and is this a viable (for the cost as it was produced with VDR) addition to my army?

OK first...HOLY HARPIES BATMAN...yer talkin about a flyin titan hunter...death from above... Unfortunately (from what I have been able to gleam from it) the interactive VDR is based on the old 2000 (original VDR) rules series and since the update and the inclussion of the FAQ's into the newer version...there are several loopholes that the interactive doesn't cover up very well...although the model sounds like it'll be awesome...

Second I need to check the '04 VDR...don't think flyers qualify as warmachines...thus you'd lose the structure points...Will check it out and get back to you...also twin linking and co-axial are NOT the same...one is an extra shot while the other is a re-roll of a missed shot...in effect twin linking them only gives you four shots with a re-roll...where as co-axial gives you eight shots...and Heroka is correct...co-ax is ALWAYS a different weapon...one of the loopholes fixed in the newer version of the VDR

Third I agree that perhaps having four twin linked Prisms is a bit much...think of the recoil...and if it moves you'ld only be able to fire two?...will have to check that out as well...and of course it couldn't stand still as a flyer not moving = crashed vehicle under the flyer rules...LMAO dead on the first straffing run...

Fourth...I believe there is a preset armor value you HAVE to allow for your vehicle...depending on race and size...it may just be max allowable armor, but am not sure as it's been a while since I drug em out and went through em verbatum...so again will check it and get back to you...

Fifth I, personally, don't feel it as a viable inclusion for the simple fact that modeling it effectively would be a bigger headache than anything else...albiet the points are in line with say a titan...it would have to be a rather large model to accomodate the weapons systems you are proposing...not to mention the modifications to the wings and such to allow for the weight of the model itself...I suppose it all depends on how you have envisioned the final model will appear...I am picturing something with multiple wings, like an x-wing fighter...I'll check the the rules and get back to you on the other stuff...till then keep yer fingers crossed...

[SteveBerenyi]

Originally Posted by wolfpack

OK first...HOLY HARPIES BATMAN...yer talkin about a flyin titan hunter...death from above... Unfortunately (from what I have been able to gleam from it) the interactive VDR is based on the old 2000 (original VDR) rules series and since the update and the inclussion of the FAQ's into the newer version...there are several loopholes that the interactive doesn't cover up very well...although the model sounds like it'll be awesome...

Second I need to check the '04 VDR...don't think flyers qualify as warmachines...thus you'd lose the structure points...Will check it out and get back to you...also twin linking and co-axial are NOT the same...one is an extra shot while the other is a re-roll of a missed shot...in effect twin linking them only gives you four shots with a re-roll...where as co-axial gives you eight shots...and Heroka is correct...co-ax is ALWAYS a different weapon...one of the loopholes fixed in the newer version of the VDR

Third I agree that perhaps having four twin linked Prisms is a bit much...think of the recoil...and if it moves you'ld only be able to fire two?...will have to check that out as well...and of course it couldn't stand still as a flyer not moving = crashed vehicle under the flyer rules...LMAO dead on the first straffing run...

Fourth...I believe there is a preset armor value you HAVE to allow for your vehicle...depending on race and size...it may just be max allowable armor, but am not sure as it's been a while since I drug em out and went through em verbatum...so again will check it and get back to you...

Fifth I, personally, don't feel it as a viable inclusion for the simple fact that modeling it effectively would be a bigger headache than anything else...albiet the points are in line with say a titan...it would have to be a rather large model to accomodate the weapons systems you are proposing...not to mention the modifications to the wings and such to allow for the weight of the model itself...I suppose it all depends on how you have envisioned the final model will appear...I am picturing something with multiple wings, like an x-wing fighter...I'll check the the rules and get back to you on the other stuff...till then keep yer fingers crossed...

1st.. Crap, would it be more likely to have say 2x mounted on each wing? as the x-wing sounds much more appealing (eye wise) than what i had in mind.

2. would it be more well, realistic to have say 8 prism cannons? also, the nature of the Eldar flyers gives them VTOL capability. and you can throw skimmer on em for a further 40 pts.

Let me know.

Thans,
Steve

[wolfpack]

OK...here's what we have so far...(sorry this took so long...)

1)flyers can count as heavies so you don't lose yer structure points...however there is a limit...SH flyers can have up to three...no more...less if you wish...

2) they do not qualify as warmachines so they are limited to super heavy and the rules that apply under the VDR...completely different rule set designed specifically for flyers

3) their style of combat is attack run...which means they only fly on then fly over then fly off...the VTOL can not be given to flyers...period...regardless of race
you may make it a lander but not a VTOL...no loitering over a target

4) they may have 1 shields per structure point...which give it a 4+Inv. save against all attacks from the front side and rear...not from the bottom or top...so if yer shot at by say troops on yer attack run from the ground...then it is considered a belly attack...work out the shot against the sheild as normal...any vehicles shooting are considered to be shooting at one of the facings...and if it's say an Imperial fighter...(or the like) then the attack is at the discretion of the opponent...

5) they may not tank shock and are counted as either fast attack or heavy support...(in yer case..Heavy support)

6)all shots against it hit on a D6 roll of 6, during it's run, are considered glancing...however any thing over immobilised as a damage result and it's so long nice to see you (crash and burn baby)...

hope this helps...will have more when I look through the apoc book if you haven't already...LMAO