Diresword and Shruiken Pistol or Power Weapon and Shimmershield?

[Killermoose]

I've got the new Dire Avenger set, and I am trying to work out what weapon combination to go for for my Exarch. I am taking the defend power (I want this squad to tag-team with my Bladestorm sqaud, this one engaging enemies in CC after they have been whittled down by the Bladestorm sqaud). I was origionally going to take Power Weapon and Shimmershield, but really, how good is a 5+ invunerable in combat? Not many armies have enough power weapons to warrant this, and I am wondering if it would be better to take the diresword and shruiken pistol (+1 attack for 2 CC weapons), which against low leadership multi-wound models is very effective (this one even works against Tryranids, it's not described as instant death). I would like your advice on A. How useful a 5+ Invunerable is in combat and B. Is it better to take a Diresword than a Power Weapon and Shimmershield, (the diresword is 5 less points). Thanks in advance.

[DeAd_cOmMaNdO]

well you said this squad will end up charging into combat right? so id go with the diresword/pistol combo. Defend already makes the unit that much more survivable in combat, so you can live without the inv save (though look out for independant characters)

[Killermoose]

How useful do you think a 5+ Invunerable is? Do you think that there are enough units with power weapons to warrant it? Thanks for the help

[DeAd_cOmMaNdO]

put it this way: id say 95% of units that intend to get into combat will have one power weapon/fist at least. if you think taking a 5+ inv save will help against that, do so. if not... dont

[Levin]

I'm kind of in the same boat here. I was looking at doing something more along the lines of 1 squad with the dire sword (they're dire avengers, come on) and 1 with the twin suriken exarch. 1 with diresword has defend, other squad doesn't. These 2 squads tag team together to hopefully bladestorm the piss out of the enemy and then charge forward and do some butt kicking. hopefully, terrain will provide the necessary cover saves until you get to cc. You'll probably not be making many 5+ saves anyway, and if they've only got 1 power weapon, it's not going to hurt you that bad (especially, if you did the charging), but if they've got more... Well, you weren't gonna make that many 5+'s anyway.

[Perturabo]

Ive been thinking about how to build my Eldar force (when I get it) and was thinking along the lines of giving the Exarch the Diresword (I agree with above they are Dire Avengers),and giving him bladestrom (for fluff reasons-it fits) a scything wall of shuriken baldes just seems so Eldar.
This way they can sit at range and shoot anything coming their way (using baldestorm if needs be),then if Close Combat occurs the Exarch can use his Diresword on any troublesome models (carefull placing will be required) Id then have a seialised Close Combat unit at hand to support the unit (Scorpions or Banshees)!
One thing that makes me go for this is having read the codex and seeing other Eldar battles is that I feel you shouldnt try and make an Eldar squad an all rounder,make them specialised in one area and they will excell try and make them balanced and they will no good at anything,let the units do their one role and let another supprot and compliment them-you dont see Dark Reapers trying to charge anyone or Banshees in a shoot out!

[Killermoose]

Well, thanks for all the help. Looks like my Exarch will be going for the Diresword, as I think that one squad leader with a power weapon doesn't really require a 5+ save (hopefully I will have either blasted him to hell or hacked his brains out before he gets a chance to attack). I'll use more specialised units to take out the power weapon equipped sqauds, my Dire Avengers can go for the more common troops.

[Levin]

there you go. Just out of curiousity, what color is a diresword? I painted my witchblades light blue with white highlights that make them look like crystal. So what colors should the DS be?

[DeAd_cOmMaNdO]

i think thats like saying what colour is a space marine!

Killermoose: i think the diresword option should be a good one. just out of curiosity, can you use that brilliant spear as a diresword? if so, than thats more than enough reason to use one!

[Killermoose]

Do you mean the power weapon in the Dire Avengers box? I see no reason why not, though you could perhaps cut off the blade part on top and replace it with the actual 'sword' bit of the Diresword. Just say it's a Direspear =)

[deathwing scoipion dragon]

well were I play most armies are cc heavy and has mostly 4 power weopons in it and thats not even inculding dreds now if you take the shimmer sheild and dire sword thats gewd but so is defend but what you should relly do to deice what role is it going to be an atacker cc or couter atack or defender sqaud .

[Levin]

That's all well and good, but I think we're all forgetting the point. Dire Avengers are glorified anti horde killers. They pack the equivilent of a shorter ranged stormbolter. This isn't the kind of firepower you want to be wasting on cc attack squads of death. Against marines (the most likely army you're referring too) they're gonna save 67% of the wounds you cause, so it's better to just shoot at em with all you've got and make them save more times. All this talk about attacking and defending is more than likely a pipe dream. And as stated before, getting a 5+ save against 4-8 power weapon attacks means you'll save anywhere from 0-3. What seems better to me is if you save yourself a lot of points and simply make the squads do what they were designed to do. Shoot the piss out of people before bum rushing foward. You do this with all your squads and your bound to kill more of him than he does of you and you'll outnumber him. If you give your exarch an extra shuriken cat. then you'll be getting 4-5 attacks before the charge, and 4 after. Going with the diresword, you get 1-2 shots before the charge and 4 power weapon attacks that have a chance to cause instant death after. Seems that mathematically, both of these configurations beat out the alternative plan involving the shield. If you take the shimmer shield you won't get any shots from your exarch before the charge, and you'll only get 3 power weapon attacks in cc that don't cause instant death. Sure, you might save 1 or 2 of your own guys, but if you'd taken more shots and the extra power weapon attack, you might have been able to kill off that guy that's swinging back at you with his power weapon. Especially if you charged him with two squads.

Truly, it all depends on the circumstances during the game what tactic is best, but I have a strong feeling that a lot of these tactical ideas are going to be highly ineffective once you start playing them out.

[Killermoose]

Thanks for that Levin, I think you are right. 5+ invunerable isn't really gonna save enough Dire Avengers to be useful. So I'm just going to have 1 sqaud of Dire Avengers with Bladestorm and an Exarch armed with 2 Shruiken Catapults shoot the crap out of the enemy, helped along by another sqaud of Dire Avengers with Defend and an Exarch armed with a Diresword and a Shruiken pistol, and then have the second sqaud charge whatevers left. Hopefully they will either of have killed everyone, or killed enough to make the enemy run for the hills, and then preform a sweeping advance. This should work well against pretty much everyone.