Beating Death Guard

[Ion Raptor]

I've had two battles aginst my firneds Death Guard, and lost badly both times.

Here's his army list from what I could gather

10 man Plague Marines with two plasma guns+ Rhino with combi-bolter

10 man Plague Marines with two plasma guns + Rhino with combi bolter

10 man Chaos Space Marines with mark of Nurgle and missile launcher

10 lesser daemons

5 Terminator Champions with mark of Nurgle, two with chain fist, one with combi-flamer, one with combi melta

1 Terminator Lord with Mark of Nurgle

My list was:

1 Chaos sorcerer with gift of chaos and warptime

6 Terminators (one of these champion), one with heavy flamer

7 Raptors (one of these champion with power sword), two with meltaguns

9 man thousand sons squad with winds of chaos
9 man thousand sons squad with winds of chaos
9 man thousand sons squad with winds of chaos + Rhino

they came in at about 1500 points, using Thousand Sons how would you go about beating this? Now granted my Raptors deep struck on top of one of his Rhinos and splattered themselves, but I got creamed after that. I think I should have done a little better.

[Word Bearer 81007]

during your game what seemed to be the worst problem you had.

[Ion Raptor]

Well my worst problem would have been my inability to bring my AP3 rapid-fire bolters to bear, while avoiding close combat with the Death Guard.

My one Rhino seemed to do very well in getting my squad behind his line and with the help of my Terminators, killing his Termie squad and Lord. But then that left my two remaining squads to be attacked by the Death Guard in their Rhinos, I couldn't keep a good range and simply lost too many men.

I thought about just getting 5 man squads and bringing as many powers to bear as possible, but I didn't have the time to create that list.

ALSO, to anyone who knows, what template does Winds of Chaos use? The Flamer template?

[Word Bearer 81007]

the wind of chaos in 3rd edition did, I will admit in the new codex it doesn't state it to my knowledge so i would assume yes. I can't figure out what went wrong with your list. honestly it has to be tatic more than your list.

[Drax]

Wind of Chaos uses the flamer template. the other two are blast markers

your ksons shouldn't have issues shooting. they can start doing so at 24" and still move remember.

i would take flamers on raptors, it increases the number of models getting hit, and although the meltas avoid FNP, they are still only going to kill a max of 1 per shooting phase.

[Ion Raptor]

I was using them as antitank, but they never got the chance as the tank inadvertently wiped them out.

That may have lost me the game, as my Raptors could have taken out the Marine squad, then gone for the lesser demons.

[Drax]

yeah, sorry just seen that last bit to your original post.

that sort of thing happens to me a lot, and thats why i just run them up through cover (since i play on a cover heavy board).

i would take the reaper on the terminators to tackle rhino type vehicles in the event that you lose other anti tank.

i would also give the Asp Sorcs doombolt, since they would then just be adding to their squad's firepower.

perhaps only also have one melta and one flamer in the raptor squad rather than 2 if you are only going to see rhinos(and make them 8 strong)

[Ion Raptor]

Why give them doombolt over the other powers? it's pretty much the least effective.

[Drax]

because it complements the rest of the squad, doesn't mean you are mixing roles, and is cheap yet effective

[Imperial Commander Gent]

Drax has a point, doombolt compliments your squads abilities to kill power armor. Now, I think your biggest problem here is you gave wind of chaos to your sorcerors and gift of chaos to your lord. First, drop gift on the lord and give him something like doombolt instead (since he isnt marked). Then put him in a squad of thousand sons with a sorceror with doombolt as well. That is a lot of anti power armor fire. More later

[experiment 626]

Originally Posted by Ion Raptor

1 Chaos sorcerer with gift of chaos and warptime

+++ gift isn't a great choice against high toughness troops. stick to warptime and add a mark of tzeentch to allow you to take bolt of change.
run this guy on his own, but keep him slightly behind your front squad so he can't be picked out!+++

6 Terminators (one of these champion), one with heavy flamer

+++ mark them with an icon of tzeentch; 4+ invulnerable on top of a 2+ save can be pretty hard to cut through!
add in a couple pairs of lightning claws for those re-rolls!+++

7 Raptors (one of these champion with power sword), two with meltaguns

+++ lose 'em for now... those pts can better spent to help bulk-out the rest of your force.
besides, if you're going to deep strike raptors, then give them plasma guns... S7 will cut through most side/rear armour like butter. a meltagun is over-kill and it could very easily result in you catching a few raptors in the blast of an exploding vehicle too!+++

9 man thousand sons squad with winds of chaos
9 man thousand sons squad with winds of chaos
9 man thousand sons squad with winds of chaos + Rhino

+++ as others have pointed out, doombolt is a much better compliment for these squads and it lets you keep your distance whereas wind forces you to get close!+++

they came in at about 1500 points, using Thousand Sons how would you go about beating this? Now granted my Raptors deep struck on top of one of his Rhinos and splattered themselves, but I got creamed after that. I think I should have done a little better.

your tactics are likely a big part of the issue;
- are you trying to pick on multiple squads at once? if so don't! concentrate fire and wipe out whole squads where you can. at the very least, make sure you knock a squad below scoring unit status before changing targets.

- are you shooting at transports that are already 'stunned' or 'immobilised'? again, once you've nutralised a tank/transport for the turn, stop shooting at it! start picking on the next most threatening target...

- are you forgetting that plague marines are I3?! that's a big one! you have initiative on those T5 gribblies... hit them with lightning claws and they'll go splat before they can hit you back!

hope this helps,
cheers!

[Ion Raptor]

I forgot to say that all units have the mark of Tzeentch, It was more of a test of powers, using gift and winds instead of Bolt of Change like I had in my previous battles.

I have to say that I love Winds of Chaos, but is there an effective way to implement this into the army? Without it it or bolt of change I don't have much in the way of tank busters. Of course I suppose nothing is stopping me from from creating a tank killer list and an infantry killer list.

[experiment 626]

Originally Posted by Ion Raptor

I forgot to say that all units have the mark of Tzeentch, It was more of a test of powers, using gift and winds instead of Bolt of Change like I had in my previous battles.

I have to say that I love Winds of Chaos, but is there an effective way to implement this into the army? Without it it or bolt of change I don't have much in the way of tank busters. Of course I suppose nothing is stopping me from from creating a tank killer list and an infantry killer list.

well, keep wind on the rhino-born squad. give the champ a personal icon and summon the termies to help support your mobile unit;
a) squad drives up & deploys on the opposite side of their transport so they can't get shot-up!
b) next turn, termies come down, thousand sons move out and now both units support the other.
c) add-in your own unit of lesser daemons to act as a cheap combat screen for even more fun!

also, look into a dradnought with twin-linked autocannon & rocket launcher. it can sit back 48" away from the bulk of the enemy and just plug away...

cheers!

[Ion Raptor]

Yeah the Dreadnought could plug away, but with my troops so slow there's a really good chance that it will riddle me full of rounds instead.

[Sir James Bloodfang]

Add hard hitting units. Chosen, Possessed, etc. Whittle them away with as much firepower as you can muster. In fact I suggest investing in Obliterators. Then send in your hard hitting units to mop them up.

The key is learning to adapt and that may mean changing your list at times.