Carnifex... OF DOOM!!

[all-lucky7777]

I've got a conundrum for you. I'm sure at least some people have found that unit of doom thats been cheesed a bit. Well, heres a scenario for you.

Aaron's 239 point Carnifex versus my 1000 point Tau.

Carny- WS 4, BS 3, S 10, T 7, W 5, I 1, A D6, LD 10
TL Devourers, scythe tail and crushing claws, spore cysts and regenerate.

Tau-
12x FW- Shasui w/Bonding Knife, Marker Drone, Gun Drone
10x FW- Shasui w/Bonding Knife, Marker Drone, Gun Drone, Devilfish
12x Human Auxillery, 2 pulse rifles, Gue'ui (what can I say? I like traitors)
3 Separate Crisis suits with a plasma rifle, burst cannon, multitracker
1 Hammerhead- Rail, Burst cannon
2 separate pirahna, fusion blaster
Shas'o with Vectored retro thrusters, cyclic Ion blaster aqnd sheild gen.

I know it look like i wasn't geared for fighting a carnifex by itself, but there were more nids on the board when I realized this.

Okay, the Tau can blow away at the Carny for little to no effect until it reachs my lines and I literally can't hurt it anymore. as long as its in cc I can't shoot at it. My entire ARMY is blasting away at the thing and If I should actually cause a wound, then it might even heal it. Once it gets to cc I can back up outside 12" but theres only so much board. If I fail, Its more time to escape and shoot, but that simply cant make up for the all the Tau corpses lying around, (victory points) and It can still shoot at me to average effect, kill a few here an there until it corners me.

I should also mention that the only thing that is really capable of killing it that I've found is force weapons (of which neither my tau nor effectively my IG can produce), or a SM termie Librarian with dual lightning claws.


I really just need some one to point out a hole... but try it yourself! I know there shouldn't be anything as cheesiness in 40k, but I could esaily be wrong. Any ideas?

Oh yes, I tried not to spoil anything GW copyrighted but may have screwed up somewhere. A heads up would be a good thing if that happened. Thanks.

[Cirative]

A conundrum is a problem that solves itself, or a question that answers itself.

[JoeGuardsman]

You have that Carnifex dead on turn two with less than half your army. I don't know what you are worried about. If you need to worry about other things in the army you just shoot at it with the rail gun on the hammer head for three turns and when it comes into range bring up the pirahnas and finish him off bring in the crisis suits with plasma rifles for insurance if you want.
Unless Tyranid players get lucky with shooting uber-fexes are useless. Though they can be useful if your opponent doesn't have the hard ware to handle him.

[Inquisitor Rosenadel]

Those Pirhanas could handle it. They might not have it dead quickly, and I don't know how strong Devourers are, but you could probably get a couple god volleys and then wipe it with the Railgun on the hammerhead.

And if it really came down to you having to keep moving to destroy it, those Pirhanas could do it. They;'re mobile, albeit short-ranged, and have weaponry capable of blowing smoking holes in the Carnie.

[Ikarus]

I'm confused on your situation.

Your whole army vs a fex?


Well lets get at it.

Tau-
12x FW- Shasui w/Bonding Knife, Marker Drone, Gun Drone
10x FW- Shasui w/Bonding Knife, Marker Drone, Gun Drone, Devilfish
12x Human Auxillery, 2 pulse rifles, Gue'ui (what can I say? I like traitors)
3 Separate Crisis suits with a plasma rifle, burst cannon, multitracker
1 Hammerhead- Rail, Burst cannon
2 separate pirahna, fusion blaster
Shas'o with Vectored retro thrusters, cyclic Ion blaster aqnd sheild gen.

Marker and gun drones are a BAD choice for Fire Warrior squads. Notice how much points you spend on them?

Human Aux = I would never field.

You have a Devilfish, a hammer head, and Piranhas.

Why don't you bust out a Fish of Fury formation?

[Tau Tactics] Fish of Fury Formation

Read that if you need help.


I am assuming you are playing a 1k point game.



We need to know what the other tyranid army has to determine how to effectively help you in this situation. To say that - How can I kill the carnfex? Is a simple solution, I can solve it for you.


Fish of Fury formation line - Double Markerlight the fex - Double Tap Crisis Plasmas, Double Fusion, and railgun it.

That is over 5 wounds, and if you fail. There is some serious bad dice rolling.


Because the Carnifex is SO slow. I would not worry about it. I would chop down the enemy for a turn or two.

Once it hits close range - Bring in all your heavy weapons to kill it. YOU HAVE AP 2 WEAPONS WITH HIGH STRENGTH! USE IT!

You don't need force weapons. You simply have the guns with str to cut through toughness. Then the AP to negate the armor.




I think target priority is your issue, but thats okay.



Also make use of Fish of Fury. It denies close combat.

[experiment 626]

basically, ignore the 'fex for a few turns! it's not that great a build in all honesty; expensive, very poorly dual-roled and slow...
instead, concentrate on the #1 priority when facing tyranids: synapse creatures! 'nids need synapse gribblies to make a game of it plain and simple... without any synapse, their only effective units are lictors, gene stealers & 'fexes. all the other little bugs have a below average Ld meaning they're very likely to fail their instinctive behavior tests. (and thus run away or lurk...)

as to how to kill the 'fex when it comes time, as ikarus pointed out, use high ap weapons and/or high S weapons;
- railguns firing solid shot. (broadsides and/or hamerheads)
- plasma rifles
- fusion guns
- cyclic ion cannon. (in a pinch it can work, as IIRC, a 6 to-hit = ap1 shot?!)
- missile pods. (S7 so it at least wounds on a 4+)

now if combat is unavoidable for some reason, have your high speed units bail out and just feed the death gribbly something cheap that'll take it all day to eat-up... (kroot and or a basic fire warrior squad!)

and when all else fails, remember the general rule when facing anything big and scary; "the more mud you fling at the wall, the more that will eventually stick!" (ie: in the end, lots and lots of pulse rifle fire will down the 'fex eventually!)

cheers!

[all-lucky7777]

Well, that made me look newbie...

Thanks anyway. I made the assumption on simple mathematics, 4+ to hit, 6+ to wound etc. I calculated it out in my head after it happened is all. And It actually happened, but I was playing myself, and even had it been so impervious I came up with the 'use a tank as a shield from assault' concept while I was writing the post.

So I assume bigger guns work then? I like the fish of fury concept, I knew about everything but the drone concepts and the Gunfish concept. My only thought is that mechanized tau needs something on the board for Omega Missions. (pathfinders seem an excellent choice, and I hadn't even thought the army could work!)

Perhaps I be the schooled rather than the schooling. I thought I was much more tactically adept. Also, my English obviously isn't perfect. I meant the word 'conundrum' interchangeably with problem or difficulty, which i should know is wrong. Guess thats what happens when you drop out of school...

Thanks for the constructive criticism!

Cyclic Ion blasters are not able to touch a carny with T7 (simply not possible- they're S3).


I also had a strategy of sorts. It involves the following:

Black legion army list
Chaos Rhino, w/ or without the mark of nurgle
9 Plague marines including AC, with or without special weapons
Nurgle Lieutenant geared for Close Combat (note this also works in Death Guard armies with a lord, I just think it works better with black legion)
At least 2 units of plague bearers.

1)Drive the Rhino full speed towards whatever you want locked down. This is commonly devastators and their ilk. Something your lietenant with survive in combat with for a round. And try to see if you can shoot for a large concentration of troops. Guard, eldar guardians, orks and termaguants.

2)If the rhino blows up in the enemy shooting phase you can either choose to do something else with them, or you can foot slog it. The toughness on the squad means it should last 'til you get wherever you want to go. The rhino almost acts like additional armor, you get a 4+ to see if your affected then a 3+ save, which is probably better than if they were shooting at you outside the tank. Plus it gets you there faster.

3)once you get within your assault range of the unit you are assaulting, during the movement phase you detach your lieutenant form the unit. Then you shoot the crap out of SOMETHING ELSE with the Plague Marine's Bolters. Then proceed to summon plaguebearers from reserve, into the enemy unit. If it scatters then it still can charge in. This is why you need two, as its at least a 4+ for them to pop out of the warp, and the lietenant to support and hold them off until you have the plaguebearers in.

4)Situate The rhino off to on side so as to create a fire alley (they really are pretty expendable) You might even use a landraider (i just thought of that). and since you can't shoot through a combatn you something between 90 and 180 degrees of space that you can shoot or be shot at, and can proceed to limit the squads threats and targets by moving the rhino, all the while summoning more plaguebearers into the unit. If things get out of control or you get charged, then the Plague marines get 2 attacks from true grit and you can charge them in. Especially Useful when you run out of plaguebearers.

Well, what do you think? There are bound to be holes, but I liked it.

[experiment 626]

well, that chaos stratagy will be good for the next week only! after that, the new codex comes out and you lose your things like the plaguebearers and their 'always wound on a 4+'...

still though, the general rule of 'lots of basic guns', or else, 'every ap2 gun possible' works wonders!

cheers!

Note: i've edited both your posts into one, just to help keep our forums as neat and tidy as possible.
when a secondary idea hits you, look for the 'edit' button at the bottom of your post to add it in your additional thoughts.

[all-lucky7777]

What!!?? No more Plaguebearers!!?? What are they using for daemons?? Or are they messing up Chaos entirely?

Should've bought a black legion force while i had the chance. But what do you think? Might work okay modified.

I don't know what went wrong, but when the 4th ed eldar book came out, everyone was saying that guardians were 0-2. I looked at the book in a shop when it came out and there was no restriction on guardians. So, I don't know, maybe the chaos book is subject to rumors? As a side note, I think that I heard that here, but it might have been on warseer. I don't even go there anymore, but I don't remember why.

-Lucky

[Perturabo]

There are no more god specific deamons, only generic summoned deamons (amongst other changes). Have a read of the Chaos threads and you soon pick up on the changes.

[all-lucky7777]

Thanks. I'll check it out in a bit. Greg's gonna be pissed that there are no more Daemonettes...

[experiment 626]

Originally Posted by all-lucky7777

Thanks. I'll check it out in a bit. Greg's gonna be pissed that there are no more Daemonettes...

also be sure to check out the codex: daemons stuff as well. that's were all the god-specific daemons will make their comeback, along with the marked greater daemons.

cheers!

[all-lucky7777]

Oh. So they haven't completely gotten rid of them. I haven't checked it out yet, but will when I have time.