Chaos CC Weapons vs

[Ikarus]

Sometimes some people may load out their Aspiring champions or hq's 'too much' than they should really get. So here below is the Base cost for each basic CSM CC weapon versus its ability to kill and redeem essentially how much its worth back. Later analysis, will include further weapons that are strictly dedicated to the other groups of chaos. Feel free to add what you think.

Kill Ratio fully assumed out of 3 hits from an Aspiring Champion.

Power Fist:
Cost: 15 points
Kills: 1.25

Power Fist w/ spiky bits
Cost: 25 points
Kills: 1.89

Power weapon w/ daemonic strength:
Cost: 15 points
Kills: 1.0

Power weapon w/ daemonic strength & spike bits:
Cost: 25 points
Kills: 1.5

Pair of lightning claws
Cost: 30 points
Kills: 1.1

Pair of lightning claws w/ daemonic strength
Cost: 35 points
Kills: 1.3

Pair of lightning claws w/ daemonic strength & spiky bits:
Cost: 45 points
Kills: 2.0



The most cost effective weapon for their damage output would be the powerfist solo or the power weapon with daemonic strength. Keep in mind keeping a powerfist on an Independant Character could be questionable as you will hit last and have the possibility of suffering wounds.

But take it as you see fit

[Dan296]

whats the # points per kill? how did you calculate that, and what does it mean?

on my bezerker aspiring champions, i use a power weapon and melta bombs. you still negate the armour save and melta bombs are better then power fists at taking out tanks. true, you only get 1 attack compared to 4, but still.
lightning claws with spiky bits are also good because you can re-roll a miss and wounds.
power fists on IC's are terrible ideas. it completly wastes their awsome initiative. there are tons of better weapons options for them.

[masterofweirdness]

Originally Posted by Dan296

whats the # points per kill? how did you calculate that, and what does it mean?

on my bezerker aspiring champions, i use a power weapon and melta bombs. you still negate the armour save and melta bombs are better then power fists at taking out tanks. true, you only get 1 attack compared to 4, but still.
lightning claws with spiky bits are also good because you can re-roll a miss and wounds.
power fists on IC's are terrible ideas. it completly wastes their awsome initiative. there are tons of better weapons options for them.

But power weapons are useless against T8, and pretty bad against T6+ (though the number of said models are rare, it'd suck to have a 150+ points go down the drain cause no one can beat the stupid Wraithlord!)

[experiment 626]

well, actually power fists used by S4 characters are better at tackling tanks!
power fists while maybe needing 5's or 6's to damage the front of most heavy tanks, at least get multiple attacks! melta bombs are limited to a single attack, and cannot benifit from re-rolls like master-crafting...

unless you have multiple models with melta bombs, a power fist sergeant/champion is a better bet when taking on armoured targets in an assault!

cheers!

[hairyyahoo]

i find that the very best kit for a chaos lord is a pair of master crafted ligtning claws, spiky bits, mutation, speed and furious charge. thats +100pts on top of the cost of the character, and you still have 30 pts left from the wargear allowance.

a lord so kitted up will throw out 6 s5 attacks on the charge at i6 re-rolling 2 hit rolls and any failed wound rolls, ignoring armour saves, benefitting from d6" fleet move and a 12" charge move (total movement 19-24"). more than enough to lay the smackdown on those small elite meq squads. add daemonic strength if your really worried about wound rolls.

my lord ikaras, i do agree that this equipment and other 'max out' wargear choices are a little excessive and do make the character a little pricy, but the codex makes it all too tempting to go nuts. personally i only use lords in high points games and stick to lieutenants for 1500 or less, as they cost less.

[Ikarus]

Well I guess then its just a simple pointer out to Aspiring Champions for the most part. As this will just 'maybe' be a good pointer and holdback for those who go a little overboard on their squad leaders

[hairyyahoo]

yeah unit champions don't need nearly as many upgrades as some players give 'em, normally just the weapons will be enough, and only power weapons and power fists are viable options here with maybe a plasma pistol if you're into such things.

on the other hand, if you are struggling to spend the last couple of points, some of the more basic daemonic gifts are nice. visage is an absolute steal for unit champs and might just tip the balance in assults, aura is handy for power fist users and anyone can find a use for strength.

[Ikarus]

Originally Posted by hairyyahoo

yeah unit champions don't need nearly as many upgrades as some players give 'em, normally just the weapons will be enough, and only power weapons and power fists are viable options here with maybe a plasma pistol if you're into such things.

on the other hand, if you are struggling to spend the last couple of points, some of the more basic daemonic gifts are nice. visage is an absolute steal for unit champs and might just tip the balance in assults, aura is handy for power fist users and anyone can find a use for strength.

Only one thing I'd take off is the idea of aura on pfist users because Champions cannot be singled out unless you are base to base.. you can just go hidden powerfist.

[experiment 626]

personally, i feel a power fist armed champ doesn't need anything beyond the counter-attack/infiltrate/move through cover skill/s
- counter-attack ensures a crafty opponent can't leave the champ and his mates high and dry by attacking say the unit's flank... no matter where the enemy assaults the unit's line, the champ with his fist will get in his punches!
- infiltrate is a no brainer if you're not using transports.
- move through cover isn't utilised enough in my opinion and it's a great skill too! that extra D6 can make all the difference between getting into combat or becoming a sitting duck...
plus, it also allows you to attack through areas you're opponent wouldn't normally expect you to!

as for the idea of giving a power fist champ daemonic gifts?
- strength is nearly pointless unless you know you'll be facing 3 wraithlords really. S8 is all you really need 99% of the time!
- aura is again moot because as a UC, the champ cannot be singled out except by an engaged IC and/or the 'torrent of blows' rules
- resiliance. again, i don't understand why some players do this because he won't get to use his improved toughness untill there's only him and one other guy left... (majority toughness rules)
- visage i don't like personally because it's usually a better idea to stay locked in assault! while you might be counter-charged, at least you won't get shot to pieces...

now, daemonic muntation is a good cheap way of getting an extra attack and/or giving your champ the 'rage of khorne' gift for +D3 attack when he assaults...

okay, enough of my ramblings!
cheers!