Daemonhunters Army Tactics

[Lord_Tyrion]

++ DAEMONHUNTERS TACTICS – FAITH AND DUTY ++

This is a tactics article I wrote for the Hammer of War Newsletter, but as the concept of the letter failed i am now posting it your your use. This is a great read for both allies and enemies of the Daemonhunters force as it defines some of the tactics both used to wield the force and its weaknesses.

NOTE: Due to its length (18144 charcters) it will be split into two posts!

1.1 - Inquisitor Lord
At 45pts, he is one of the cheapest HQ choices available for the army. He has a relatively high WS, BS, A and I. Although this and his cost (about half the cost of a Space Marine Commander) seem to suggest he will be an excellent combatant, remember he is still only T3, S3 and so is far easier to harm than a Marine. Now onto his real strength - his retinue. Not only is it compulsory to take at least 3 but they can augment the Inquisitor to levels of military prowess greater than even that of the Space Marine Commanders, and it is very fluffy! Also it is the retinue that enables a Lord to become a decent warrior - Familiars for example are a must. He also has excess to everything in the Armory, and I never take an Inquisitor Lord without the Emperor's Tarot and a Power Sword as a bare minimum. This makes him effective not only when in the fight but well before it, enabling his more heavily armored brothers to take the fight to the enemy alot sooner. Another combo this is commonly taken is a Psycannon and lots of Sages to maximize firepower. I personally don't take this combo (Not very fluffy and fairly expensive) but it could be useful to have yet another S:6 AP:4 weapon on the field when facing armies such as Daemon heavy Chaos or Warlock Heavy Eldar. He works best in a large retinue with Inquisitor only items (He is one of the only guys in the army that can take them, why not?) augmenting the rest of the army with his Special Rules and Psychic Powers. (I recommend Scourging to give him a real close range punch, however it is definately worth noting that a Psycannon is a far more reliable weapon - even for double the price.)

1.2 - Grey Knight Hero
Almost definitely the main HQ choice for the army, it is undoubtedly the most common and so it is vital how you equip him. I almost always take the Grand Master over the Brother Captain in games larger than 1000pts mainly for the Force Weapon and those vital extra Wounds - that is the Brother Captains greatest weakness. A Farseer could easily kill a Brother Captain in one Turn with Mind War; however the Grand Master can take much more punishment and dish it out twice as hard. The next advantage of the Grand Master is that he needs no new equipment to start tearing them apart - he comes armed to the teeth and with the simple addition of a Psyker power he becomes a fully tooled out Lord of Death. If you are really paranoid about keeping the heart of your army up and fighting then a great combo to use is the Icon of the Just and Bionics - although this increases his cost to an excessive 180pts it makes him one of the toughest HQ choices in the game! A word of caution however, remember that he is only one man and easily overcome by an Instant Kill weapon and though Mind War may take longer to work its magic (Assuming they pass the Aegis Rule) it will still have the Grand Master on his knees within a few of Turns. Also note that you could take a Brother Captain and two Terminators for the same cost - more numbers and more attacks. But the Grand Master would still be my choice, as not only do his stats usually exceed anything most enemies can throw at you but its also great fluff wise and looks awesome on the field!
Note: It may also be prudent to take a Psycannon on a Grand Master as opposed to his Terminator Retinue; his higher BS is worth the extra 5pts over the normal one!

1.3 - Inquisitor
(See Inquisitor Lord)
He is very similar the Inquisitor Lord, albeit much cheaper and has a slightly worse save. It may be a good idea just to take him for his access to extra Rules, Powers and Equipment and attach him to a Unit. The fact he does not have to take a Retinue makes him far more flexible, and with the right equipment he can become quite an effective character killer. Also he gives you access to lots of goodies like Assassins and Daemonhosts, all for a mere 20pts+. As with the Lord if you are looking for a Psychic Power then Scourging would be my first call, it is arguably the most offensive Power available.

1.4 - Daemonhosts
Unpredictable creatures at the best of times, these can be as much of a pain in the rear to you as your enemy. Also they restrict the player to no Grey Knights, and use up a valuable Elites slot. For these reasons they are commonly overlooked, but if you have the guts to take one then here are a few words of wisdom to keep them alive and (Possibly more importantly) thrashing the enemy and not you. Firstly keep them away from the rest of your forces - Terrify and Bloodboil can real spoil your day in the wrong circumstances. Use him to best advantage by keeping him on his own and roughly 24" away from your enemy at any given time. All it takes is a roll of a 5 and it instantly becomes a killing machine, Moving 12" and Assaulting 12" and getting 2-7 S:6 attacks! This works brilliantly when using a squad of 3 Daemonhosts, for less than a Land Raider Crusader you can get between 6-21 S:6 attacks at I:4, easily enough to tear apart a full squad of Space Marines. In my opinion they are not worth the loss of the Grey Knights, but having never played with them personally my knowledge is rather limited. Please contact me if you wish to enlighten me on the subject!

1.5 - Grey Knight Terminators
The lords of the Terminators, and some of the most excellent models Games Workshop has ever produced to match. They have great stats and the loss of Power Fists puts them head and shoulder above the Space Marine Terminators - they get to keep their hefty I:4 and still dish out the death to anyone that comes close. They work brilliantly as either a tough bodyguard unit or a single entity, and with a Psycannon they can be quite deadly at ranged too. Their extra cost over the normal Terminators is easily offset by their significant advantages, and they have one thing that normal Terminators can take - Holocaust. This can cause massive damage to enemies with poor toughness and can easily turn the tide of the fight if the Grey Knights are badly outnumbered. It is worth noting that they can take Thunderhammers - one or two per Unit make them into a rather effective Tank Hunting and Monstrous Creature killing force.

1.6 - Assassins
These are the elite Units of death among the Daemonhunters, each one a Hero in his or her own right. They are fast, deadly and each specializes in the craft of death. The cheapest and arguably most versatile have to be the Death Cult assassins, they are the one of the most effective HQ hunting Units in existence and their high Initiative and Power Weapons make them deadly to even Space Marine and Necron HQ Units. All of the Assassins work well against small, elite enemy units and so should avoid large enemy Units (Such as Termagaunts) at all costs as they are actually quite fragile without support. Their I:5 makes them hard hitting, but without a 3+ Sv there is only a 50/50 chance they will make the save. Always think - Could i get something more useful for my army for the same cost? In this case they answer is generally yes (A small unit of Stormtroopers is tough and can hold Objectives for the same cost or even cheaper) however they look awesome and against the right foe they can outstrip even Grey Knight Hero's in the body count.

1.7 - Grey Knights
These are the backbone of a Pure Grey Knight army, and serve as the ultimate support unit for the standard Daemonhunter force. They are killing machines in Close Combat, and T:3 opponents (Such as the Eldar) are at constant risk of being Instant Killed by their high Strength. They have excellent ranged firepower as well, and as the Codex "Their ranged and close combat abilities far outstrip those of their Brother Space Marines". To stay cost efficient I recommend Units of 8 armed with 2 Psycannons. This creates a tough firebase Unit for less than 300pts that can easily go toe to toe with some of the best enemy Units, even Close Combat specialists. Justicars are compulsory, and though some see this as a pain I see this as a blessing. He comes armed with a Power Weapon, 2 Attacks and higher Ld than the standard Grey Knight. This enables him to carve up those Power Armored units so much more easily, and his Ld can keep those Fearless Grey Knights in the fight just that little bit longer. Grey Knights are also blessed with the Shrouding and Aegis Special Rules, making them incredibly resilient to both enemy firepower and Psychic Powers, and with his high Ld combined its very tough for powers such as Mind War to take him out. Taking a Psycannon is recommended 9 times out of 10 for Grey Knights as it can be both Assault and Heavy, however an Incinerator can be useful when facing hordes of enemies or when on a tight Points budget. Also always take Grey Knights as Fast Attack once the Troops have been filled - it makes them so much more versatile and far more acceptable to give Incinerators - they will be much closer to the enemy much sooner.

[Lord_Tyrion]

1.8 - Inquisitorial Strom Troopers
These are a truly excellent Unit, tough and cheap. They come with Hellguns, which although have no advantages over Lasguns when facing the majority of enemies, they are very useful against forces such as Tyranids and Orks. They are excellent at holding objectives, and if short on points can serve as a fairly good Tank Hunter unit. With 2 Meltaguns the enemy tanks will have something to fear, or if you are facing High Toughness and good save armies (Necrons, Space Marines, Chaos Marines) Plasma Guns can make short work of their prized Unit. Note that you should under no circumstances mix special weapons! 2 Meltaguns give a solid anti tank unit (Not that a Chimera or Rhino is essential, i would recommend the Chimera merely for its ability to carry heavier guns - i also use a Multi-Laser on almost every foe), 2 Plasma Guns are great for a front line anti-heavy infantry unit and 2 Grenade Lauchers are used in mobile units, and have great anti-infantry capabilities. I generally dont take 2 Flamers as it is an obvious waste of BS4, however it can be worth its weight in gold if fighting 5+ Save armies, or armies that use cover extensively (Catachans, anyone?).

1.9 - Purgation Squad
These are excellent if you take all 4 available weapons, as they can really hurt your opponent at range! With 4 Psycannons they become every bit as deadly as a Space Marine Devastator Squad, able to dish out ridiculous amounts of pain at both long and close range. With 4 Incinerators I recommend sticking them into a Land Raider Crusader, let rip toward the enemy and tear apart all of those 4+ Save Tau, Eldar, Tyranids and Orks alike! They exceed the Space Marines in close combat fights and with the trusty Justicar in there they can tear apart even the most heavily armored units.

2.0 - Orbital Strikes
These are often overlooked due to their high cost in such a Point tight army, but when you have the points to spare (A rare occurrence, I know) these are excellent at dealing out damage to almost any enemy army. However the only one I would recommend is the Lance Strike - avoid the Melta Torpedo entirely, the extra 3 Strength and cheapness make the Lance Strike a far more effective Tank Hunter and it cannot be offset by Special Rules like the Monoliths! It does cost a hefty 70pts (You could get an Inquisitor and small retinue for the cost) but with some good dice rolls you can make a real mess of your opponent's forces. A slight note of caution however - it is very inaccurate and when you're across the enemies' side of the field it can be incredibly dangerous. A tactic I have commonly used (And it works quite well) is taking the Barrage Bomb, centering on the objective and using your Terminators to hold it. This is the one bombardment that won't offset the Terminators great save, and anything that gets near it is pretty much toast!

2.1 - Land Raider
This is without a doubt the hardest tank in the game (Exceeding even Necrons Monolith in my humble opinion), and it gives the Daemonhunters some real anti-tank firepower with two Twin-Linked Lascannons, and with the addition of a Hunter-Killer Missile it can become quite a feared unit. It also however is one of the few Units capable of transporting Grey Knights, making it a tough choice whether to sit and fire those lovely Lascannons or send it speeding into the thick of the fray. My opinion is this - save the charges for the Land Raider Crusader, and use the Land Raider as a static firebase tank. It has the coveted AV:14 all round, and with Extra Armour it can easily become the toughest (And most expensive) Unit in the whole Daemonhunter army. It has options a normal Land Raider cannot take (Such as Psycannon Bolts) and it should exploit these as much as possible - if you can, why not? For 10pts you get an instant Greater Daemon Hunter and its AP:4 can deal with the majority of enemy Armour Saves. Bear in mind it is the most expensive tank in the game, and in an army of elite warriors it cannot be wasted. Use cover to maximum effect, and once it is Immobilized trust in the Machine Spirit to keep it running. Remember however - its AV:14 for a reason. It's not going to collapse at the first Bolt Round and if you have to endure a few rounds of fire to succeed in your objective (Whether it be to draw fire, or deal out enough damage to make back its points) then so be it. It is a tough tank to use, but can be one of the most rewarding. I would only recommend the tank in armies of 2000pts+, as they require a considerable investment.

2.2 - Land Raider Crusader
Here comes the greatest weapon available to any Imperial Daemonhunter force - The Land Raider Crusader. All round Armour 14, built in Frag Assualt Launchers, Power of the Machine Spirit, Extra Armour and the ability to transport 15 Grey Knight models or 8 Grey Knight Terminators. For Daemonhunter players this is a godsend, not only because of the awesome advantages stated above but because of his variety of weapons! When I use this monstrous tank I just put my Grand Master and retinue in, load my Strom Bolter and send it tearing up the field into the heart of my opponent's battle line. This tank, as opposed to the normal Land Raider, is almost purely built force offensive strikes and most of its supporting weaponry can fire even after moving. Once I have reached the enemy lines I pepper them with Hurricane Bolter fire, subsequently disembarking, and using the Land Raider Crusader as a supporting firebase for my expensive Terminators. Not only will they draw fire but they will increase casualties, making it much more likely the Terminators can prevent being outnumbered and bogged down in prolonged combat. Combine this with the Holocaust to create a powerful Unit that can take apart both Infantry and Heavy Infantry with incredible ease, in the name of the Emperor they will smite their foes!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

2.3 - 1000pt Daemonhunter Sample List
Brother Captain Tyrion (Scourging, Targeter, Bionics)
4x Grey Knight Terminators = 276pts
10x Inquisitoral Storm Trooper Unit Garron (2x Plasma Guns) = 120pts
8x Inquisitoral Strom Trooper Unit Daevontus (2x Melta Gun, Chimera with Multi-Laser and Heavy Bolter) = 185pts
8x Grey Knight Teleporter Unit Capulet (2x Psycannon) = 275pts
1x Dreadnought Azareth (Twin-Linked Lascannons, Missile Launcher) = 140pts
Total = 996pts - 32 Models
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

2.4 - 1500pt Daemonhunter Sample List
Grand Master Tyrion (Psycannon, Scourging, Bionics)
4x Grey Knight Terminators (1x Psycannon) = 410pts
1x Inquisitor Karkarov (Close Combat Weapon, Bolt Pistol, Emperor's Tarot, Melta Bombs, Krak Grenades, Targeter) = 50pts
++ In I:ST unit Daevontus ++
1x Vindicare Assassin = 110pts
10x Inquisitoral Storm Trooper Unit Garron (2x Plasma Guns) = 120pts
8x Inquisitoral Strom Trooper Unit Daevontus (2x Melta Gun, Chimera with Multi-Laser and Heavy Bolter) = 185pts
8x Grey Knight Teleporter Unit Capulet (2x Psycannon) = 275pts
1x Dreadnought Azareth (Twin-Linked Lascannons, Missile Launcher) = 140pts
1x Dreadnought Azaluth (Twin-Linked Lascannons, Missile Launcher) = 140pts
1x Lance Strike = 70pts
Total = 1500pts - 37 Models
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

2.5 - 1000pt Pure Grey Knight Sample List
Brother Captain Tyrion (Scourging, Bionics)
4x Grey Knight Terminators (Psycannon) = 300pts
8x Grey Knight Unit Thaedus (2x Psycannon, Melta Bombs) = 280pts
8x Grey Knight Unit Capulet (2x Psycannon, Melta Bombs) = 280pts
1x Dreadnought Azareth (Twin-Linked Lascannons, Missile Launcher) = 140pts
Total = 1000pts - 22 Models
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

2.6 - 1500pt Pure Grey Knight Sample List
Grand Master Tyrion (Bionics, Psycannon)
4x Grey Knight Terminators (Holocaust) = 409pts
8x Grey Knight Unit Thaedus (2x Psycannon, Melta Bombs, Targeter) = 281pts
8x Grey Knight Unit Capulet (2x Psycannon, Melta Bombs) = 280pts
8x Grey Knight Teleporter Unit Gaius (2x Incinerator, Melta Bombs) = 250pts
1x Dreadnought Azareth (Twin-Linked Lascannons, Missile Launcher) = 140pts
1x Dreadnought Azareth (Twin-Linked Lascannons, Missile Launcher) = 140pts
Total = 1500pts - 31 Models

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

2.7 - Overview

The Daemonhunter force is a difficult one to wield effectively, but a very rewarding army. They are elite, tough, and look awesome and it's a shame we don't have more people that play them. Armed with Nemesis Weapons, and armoured in faith they deliver death to the enemies of the Emperor in style!

Special thanks to : Experment 626 & Legolas Green

Hope this has helped guys!

[experiment 626]

Originally Posted by Lord_Tyrion

1.1 - Inquisitor Lord
At 45pts, he is one of the cheapest HQ choices available for the army. Due to his high WS, BS, Attacks and Initiative many commanders just give his a cheap Chainsword and Bolt Pistol, stick him in a Grey Knight Unit and send them charging into the fray! Although this gives a cheap effective HQ (For about half the cost of a Space Marine one) many overlook his real strength - his retinue. Not only is it compulsory to take at least 3 but they can augment the Inquisitor to levels of military prowess greater than even that of the Space Marine Commanders, and it is very fluffy! He also has excess to everything in the Armory, and I never take an Inquisitor Lord without the Emperor's Tarot and a Power Sword as a bare minimum. This makes him effective not only when in the fight but well before it, enabling his more heavily armored brothers to take the fight to the enemy alot sooner. Another combo this is commonly taken is a Psycannon and lots of Sages to maximize firepower. I personally don't take this combo (Not very fluffy and fairly expensive) but it could be useful to have yet another S:6 AP:4 weapon on the field when facing armies such as Daemon heavy Chaos or Warlock Heavy Eldar. He works best in a large retinue with Inquisitor only items (He is one of the only guys in the army that can take them, why not?) augmenting the rest of the army with his Special Rules and Psychic Powers. (I recommend Scourging to give him a real close range punch).

a few things to note here;
- his important stats, (WS/BS/I), all require the addition of certain henchmen to achive true the 'hero' level stats of 5's...
- as the lord *must* have a retinue, it's generally not a good idea to include him for the purposes of boosting another unit's combat ability. (as he must first lose all his retinue members before he can join another unit!)
- even an inquisitor lord is still a S3/T3 'human'. he is nowhere near the level of a space marine in combat!
- there are a few things in the armoury that are 'grey knights' and/or 'grey knight heroes' only!

now, being a radical and all and never having 'uber shiny space marines to help me out, here's a few things i've also learned about how to get the most out of an inquisitor/inquisitor lord;

even a formidable inquisitor lord is pretty squishy in the assault phase. he'll still always be a S3/T3 IC and thus he's very, very prone to being ripped apart, squished or otherwise beaten into a little red pulpy smear by much nasiter things! compound this problem with the fact that this 'basic human' is paying space marine pts costs for all his gear, and what you end up with is a very expensive punching bag! even 3 acolytes in artificer armour will only prolong your lord's lifespan by mere moments...
so, how to combat these terrible weaknesses? well basically don't ever tool him out for close combat because you'll never get very far! instead try to give him just enough to get by;
- a simple power toy is about as much assault kit as he needs...
- keep him to assaulting only 'basic' enemy units that will not be able to throw many attacks back your way.
- taking a familiar is a nessessity to get that all important I5!
- holocaust. always, always, always take holocaust! yes it's pricey, but it's also extremely nasty when you drop a S5 pie-plate on top of an assault. keep in mind too that the lord need not actually be locked/engaged in an assault to use this power either!

now, an inquisitor lord and his buddies are much better shooters! this is where they truely excel so pick a role and build a retinue to carry it out;
- a lord w/psycannon, 3 heavy bolter servitors, 1-2 sages & 1-2 mystics is a great fire support unit. able to lay down a tone of long ranged ap4 firepower. the high amount of S5/S6 shots will mean even MEQ's will be taking losses as you'll force plenty of armour saves.
this my personal preferance and it's served me quite well! adding on an acolyte or 2 and holocaust means the unit can also work as a counter-assault unit in a pinch!
- 3 plasma gun toting vet guardsmen, 1-2 sages & 2 mystics is a nasty counter when facing MEQ's. the mystics also ensure that your opponent will again think twice before trying to deep strike anywhere near your retinue for fear of upto 6 ap2 shots hitting him before the deep strikers can even blink!
add in some acolytes with plasma pistols for even more ap2 death if you like.
- 2-3 meltagun vet guardsmen, some acolytes loaded with melta bombs and all loaded into a chimera w/2 heavy bolters will make short work of most transports and their passengers to boot!
if the meltaguns fail, then as 'assault' type weapons, you can always charge the stubborn tank and clamp upto 4 melta bombs in place to solve the problem.

as for psychic powers, generally i've found scourging to be a bit too random... a psycannon is;
a) more reliable as it's always 3 shots
b) has a healthy ap4
c) has a meaty S6 meaning it can be used to cause 'instant death' to T3 models. (very, very handy against a lone farseer!)
d) still ignores invulnerable saves
e) has a much longer range when the inquisitor stands still
for twice the price, it's a decent trade-off.
most other powers are geared towards anti-daemon work, though holocaust is well worth its wieght in gold! sure the enemy gets their basic armour save, but when you're slaping a S5 large blast into a combat where models are so tightly packed in, you're quite likely to still clear out more than few heretics!

the final area that inquisitors excel at are as psychic defense. if you know you're likely to face alot of enemy psykers, (eldar players i'm staring in your direction!) then a lord provides a safe way to have a Ld10 counter while your grey knight hero can go about happily carving up the enemy, while your lord puts his mind to stopping that annoying and impending 'doom'!

cheers!

[r4wr89]

holy cow, this post is HUGE. i suggest that you talk to cag [or whoever is assembling the inquisitor e-zine] and have this be an article. it's certainly long enough. and while i haven't yet read it [i'm supposed to be studying for a psychology midterm tommorow -__________-] i'm assuming that it is good quality. i will come back to read it though :]
-ant

[MSguardsmen]

i have wielded a 1850 point pure grey knight army and let me tell you something. purgatation squads not so great. actually its never even a good idea to take a pure grey knight army. one they are slow, die just as easy in close range fire fight as a normal marine. also as with that big cost for the individual marine you get smaller squads. usually consisting of hopefully 5 or more. most people will not be able to even field 2 squds of over 8 with the hq.

what im trying to say is dont use grey knights as your troops get some chimeras and stormtroopers then use the fast attack grey knights.

the supreme Puritan has spoken!

[experiment 626]

comments included in the lists below;

Originally Posted by Lord_Tyrion

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

2.3 - 1000pt Daemonhunter Sample List
Brother Captain Tyrion (Scourging, Targeter)
3x Grey Knight Terminators = 220pts
1x Inquisitor Karkarov (Close Combat Weapon, Bolt Pistol, Emperor's Tarot, Melta Bombs, Krak Grenades, Targeter) = 50pts
++ In I:ST unit Daevontus ++
10x Inquisitoral Storm Trooper Unit Garron (2x Plasma Guns) = 120pts
9x Inquisitoral Strom Trooper Unit Daevontus (2x Melta Gun, Chimera with Multi-Laser and Heavy Bolter) = 195pts
8x Grey Knight Teleporter Unit Capulet (2x Psycannon) = 275pts
1x Dreadnought Azareth (Twin-Linked Lascannons, Missile Launcher) = 140pts
Total = 1000pts - 33 Models

+++ a few things wrong here;
a) a grey knight hero cannont have a targeter as there's no '*' next to it.
b) on the 'tactical' side of things, never use odd-numbered squads as they're much worse when calculating wether or not a unit counts as 'scoring'. always stick to even-numbered units as they retain their scoring status longer!
in the retinue's case, keep in mind that you want 4 termies as the brother captain in this case is an IC and thus doesn't count when determining if the unit is scoring or not!+++
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

2.4 - 1500pt Daemonhunter Sample List
Grand Master Tyrion (Psycannon, Scourging)
4x Grey Knight Terminators (1x Psycannon) = 400pts
1x Inquisitor Karkarov (Close Combat Weapon, Bolt Pistol, Emperor's Tarot, Melta Bombs, Krak Grenades, Targeter) = 50pts
++ In I:ST unit Daevontus ++
1x Vindicare Assassin = 110pts
10x Inquisitoral Storm Trooper Unit Garron (2x Plasma Guns) = 120pts
9x Inquisitoral Strom Trooper Unit Daevontus (2x Melta Gun, Chimera with Multi-Laser and Heavy Bolter) = 195pts
8x Grey Knight Teleporter Unit Capulet (2x Psycannon) = 275pts
1x Dreadnought Azareth (Twin-Linked Lascannons, Missile Launcher) = 140pts
1x Dreadnought Azaluth (Twin-Linked Lascannons, Missile Launcher) = 140pts
1x Lance Strike = 70pts
Total = 1500pts - 38 Models

+++
a) why give both a psycannon & scourging to the same model? one will always be wasted each turn...
b) again, the numbers problem - odd numbered units are very bad!+++
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

2.5 - 1000pt Pure Grey Knight Sample List
Brother Captain Tyrion (Scourging, Targeter, Bionics)
3x Grey Knight Terminators = 230pts
8x Grey Knight Unit Thaedus (2x Psycannon, Melta Bombs) = 280pts
8x Grey Knight Unit Capulet (2x Psycannon, Melta Bombs) = 280pts
1x Dreadnought Azareth (Twin-Linked Lascannons, Missile Launcher) = 140pts
1x Lance Strike = 70pts
Total = 1000pts - 22 Models

+++
a) again, you cannot take a target on the brother-captain as there's no '*' next to it.
b) the retinue needs to be 4 termies for optimal scoring purposes+++
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

2.6 - 1500pt Pure Grey Knight Sample List
Grand Master Tyrion (Scourging, Targeter, Bionics, Psycannon)
4x Grey Knight Terminators = 410pts
8x Grey Knight Unit Thaedus (2x Psycannon, Melta Bombs) = 280pts
8x Grey Knight Unit Capulet (2x Psycannon, Melta Bombs) = 280pts
8x Grey Knight Unit Gaius (2x Incinerator, Melta Bombs) = 250pts
1x Dreadnought Azareth (Twin-Linked Lascannons, Missile Launcher) = 140pts
1x Dreadnought Azareth (Twin-Linked Lascannons, Missile Launcher) = 140pts
Total = 1500pts - 31 Models

+++
a) grand master cannot have a targeter, and scourging + psycannon is a waste of pts...+++
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

cheers!

[Lord_Tyrion]

Thanks for the comments guys! I will edit it to take into account the comments made by 626!

Any more help is of course welcome!

**Ok, so the tactics are now edited, hopefully they now rectify most of the problems found**

[experiment 626]

well, here's some tips to add for tooling up storm troopers;
now, always keep in mind that storm troopers are still just guardsmen!!! more accurate, yes. better armoured, yes. still squishy humans, oh yes indeed! the same main rule applies to storm troopers as to their regular guard counter-parts: pick a role and specialise!

- 10 stormies w/2 plasma guns is your basic 'front line' unit. able to dish out a decent amount of fire at 24", including that all important ap2 from the plasmas.
don't bother with a veteran sergeant for these guys. just find i nice hard bunker or other bit of terrain with a good field of vision and hunker down! this unit excels at protecting an inquisitor and his retinue of gun servitors. place them infront of the inquisitor's mob to force target priority tests...

- 8-10 stormies w/2 grenade launchers is your mobile foot support unit. the grenade launchers dictate the unit's role as they're 'assault' 24" weapons. also don't be afraid to pop a few krak 'nades at any transports that aren't expecting it. that S6 can catch many opponent's by surprise!
a veteran sergeant might be usefull, but overall you still shouldn't be throwing this unit into assaults as that's not the role storm troopers are ment for...

- 6 stormies w/2 meltaguns. your dedicated 'tank-hunters'. keep them small because;
a) they'll be safely transported to their target in a chimera, right?
b) they won't have a long life expectancy once they slag your opponent's prized leman russ or similar!
as mentioned, these guys must have a transport to succeed in their task. T3, 4+ save units without infiltrate/fleet of foot/deep strike/move through cover or such will not make it across a battlefield! a chimera makes a better choice over the rhino simply because the chimera mounts much bigger guns! try 2 heavy bolters and you can safely deal with any surviving passengers from a wrecked transport, and/or take down a nearby supporting enemy squad! or else you could go for a heavy flamer on the hull and roast nearby assault units like banshees or genestealers. a multi-laser can be usefull for picking on a lone T3 IC as well and it makes a nice compliment to a hull heavy flamer.

- 10 stormies w/2 flamers. okay, yes as a rule of thumb giving BS4 models flamers is a waste! but, if you need some serious hoard busting then these guys are ace! they also make solid support for your main grey knight attack as you can really even the numerical odds with those flame templates.
this is one unit i would consider an 'assault' unit and they can thus benifit from a veteran sergeant w/thunder hammer & melta bombs. for only 10pts more than the power toy, your sergeant is now a meaty S6 and will get the added bonus of knocking people/gribblies senseless! the bombs are handy for punishing an opponent who likes to leave their tanks sitting perfectly still as it will auto-hit with S8 + 2D6 penetration. much better than the sergeant's measely S6 hammer...
again, you'll want a transport for this unit as they need to get up-close fast. a chimera can take an autocannon if you have access to IA vol1. a handy weapon that can deal with enemy transports or even lurking dreadnoughts! if you want the cheap route though, then go for the rhino with the mandetory smokes & extra armour.

basically, the thing to always remember with storm troopers is to not 'mix and match' roles because they simply can't do it. pick one role and stick to it! one way to help lessen the impact of losing a particular unit is to take two units and equip them the same way. now you can either have both units support eachother in taking down the same target, or especially if they're transported units, you can threaten multiple targets and force your opponent into making decisions he/she likely doesn't want to!

cheers!

[Lord_Tyrion]

Wow, you really know your stuff. I will add some of that in, and acknowledge your contribution in the final paragraph!

[Grand Master Raziel]

Originally Posted by Lord_Tyrion

1.1 - Inquisitor Lord

A few points on Inquisitors/Inquisitor Lords:

Every single time I've fielded an Inquisitor Lord, I've only given him one weapon: a bolter. However, in case of close combat, I give him the Holocaust and Hammerhand psychic powers, plus Consecrated Scrolls in case he needs both in the same turn. I find that Hammerhand is much more effective than any of the weapons you can give to an Inqy Lord, for the simple reason that it doubles his Strength but still lets him go at his Initiative.

As you might imagine, I generally find that the Inqy Lord and his retinue serve the Daemonhunters army best as a fire support unit. You can kit him and his retinue out for close combat, but if you have Grey Knights available there's not much need for that.

However, if you're going to kit up an Inqy Lord for close combat, the way to do it is to give him a Daemon Hammer, and maybe a power weapon. You then give him a retinue of three Acolytes with storm shields and bolt pistols, three Combat Servitors, and assorted other henchmen as you see fit.

It's also worth noting that an Inqy Lord can take a Land Raider as a transport for his retinue, which you put on the table as an HQ choice instead of a Heavy Support. I'm leaning toward using an allied Inqy Lord in my IG army, just so I can slap a Land Raider down along with three Leman Russes. We need an evil grin smily.

Originally Posted by Lord_Tyrion

++ 1.2 - Grey Knight Hero

Not much to add here. If you're know you're going to square off against daemons, then consider the Sanctuary psychic power. One of the big advantages daemons have is the ability to assault after they are summoned. Sanctuary negates that, letting you shoot them up before charging at your liesure.

Originally Posted by Lord_Tyrion

++ 1.3 - Inquisitor

It's worth noting that since an Inquisitor doesn't have to take a retinue, you can have him join other squads to lend his abilities to them.

Originally Posted by Lord_Tyrion

++ 1.5 - Grey Knight Terminators
It is worth noting that they can take Thunderhammers - one or two per Unit make them into a rather effective Tank Hunting and Monstrous Creature killing force.

The T-hammer is a thought, but remember that GKs come standard with a S6 power weapon, so they shouldn't have too much difficulty against most MCs.

Originally Posted by Lord_Tyrion

++ 1.6 - Assassins

Point for point, the Callidus Assassin is probably the best of the bunch. However, I also enjoy the Vindicare Assassin. It's worth noting that, in addition to the Exitus Rifle, he's armed with the Exitus Pistol: a S5, AP2 pistol, and he gets all his shooting advantages with that as well as with the Exitus Rifle.

Originally Posted by Lord_Tyrion

++ 1.7 - Grey Knights

Not much to add, but it's worth highlighting that since Grey Knights come with storm bolters, you can move them every turn without losing either range or firepower. That makes the foot squads effectively more mobile than most other armies' Troop choices on foot.

Originally Posted by Lord_Tyrion

++ 1.8 - Inquisitorial Storm Troopers

The conventional wisdom in the Rhino vs. Chimera debate is that the Chimera is the better choice for ISTs. However, you have to remember that the Chimera is going to cost almost twice as much as the Rhino in most cases. That makes the Rhino more expendable, and that's a virtue in its own right. You'd think twice before using a Chimera to block a Predator Annihiliator's line of sight, for instance. Also, if you're using your ISTs as a melta-armed tank-hunting unit, then you're better off with the Rhino, as the Chimera doesn't bring that much extra anti-tank firepower to the party (and like I say, the Rhino is more expendable). Also, there's one real good reason to take Veteran Sergeants with your ISTs: teleport homers. I'll touch on that later. I've also had power weapon armed IST sergeants kill some fairly impressive foes, the most impressive to date being a Broodlord. So, those upgrades are not complete wastes of points.

Originally Posted by Lord_Tyrion

++ 2.1 - Land Raider
This is without a doubt the hardest tank in the game

Well, you're wrong about that. The hardest tank in the game is the Eldar Falcon with the Holofield upgrade. Ecch.

Originally Posted by Lord_Tyrion

++ 2.2 - Land Raider Crusader

The LRC makes a handy tank to transport any GK squad because the frag assault launchers make up for the fact that no GK unit has access to frag grenades.


You forgot to mention something in your list of Heavy Support choices. I'll touch on it for you.

2.3 - Grey Knight Dreadnought

The Daemonhunters army list does not contain many long-range antitank platforms. One of the few is the Grey Knight Dreadnought, which is your most inexpensive option for including a lascannon in your army. Opinions vary, but for my money the GK Dread is the best antitank platform in the Daemonhunters inventory, with its ability to take a twin-linked lascannon and missile launcher. One might hesitate to replace the dread CCW with the missile launcher, but the DH list is already pretty strong in the close combat department. Grey Knights generally won't need their dreads to give them extra help in close combat. That said, one could retain the CCW and instead give the GK Dread a hunter killer missile. Ordinary SM Dreads can't take a HK missile, but GK Dreads can. The GK Dread isn't as sturdy as a Land Raider, but is considerably cheaper, and so easier to work into your army list without making too many compromises in other areas.


Other thoughts
My experience playing Daemonhunters has taught me that one thing a pure DH list really struggles with is a vehicle-heavy list. Against an army with one or two heavy vehicles and mostly lighter support vehicles, you can get by without too much dedicated anti-vehicle firepower. However, I once played against a tank-heavy IG army - not Armored Company mind you, just straight IG with a lot of Leman Russes, Chimeras, and Hellhounds. By the end of the game, I had killed practically every infantry figure my opponent had, but I just could not deal with all those tanks, which took my army apart bit by bit. So, you need to have some dedicated tank hunters in your DH army. The tank-killers in my DH list are my GK Dread and my melta-armed, Rhino-riding IST squad. I also put a liberal smattering of meltabombs on all my characters.

I've also learned that your chances of winning with a DH army are greatly enhanced if you're willing to take risks. I suppose that might be true of any army, but it's particularly true of DHs because you're already the underdog by virtue of playing DHs. In particular, risky deep strikes can really pay off for you if the risk plays out in your favor. If you can put a unit armed with even one incinerator in the right place at the right time, it can do phenomenal damage. The risk can be somewhat mitigated by having every character in your army carry a teleport homer. That way, you can key off a homer if one happens to be near where you need it. However, if that's not the case, you have to be willing to risk a bad scatter in order to put your teleport units in the right place. Playing conservatively will generally not win you any games with a Daemonhunters army.

On the other hand, if you do win with a DH army, you've really accomplished something. Eldar players like to think that their army takes the most skill to win with, but they have it easy compared to we DH players. Playing Daemonhunters is like playing Eldar without all the long-range firepower, fast units, super-hard tanks, and monstrous creatures. So, when you do win, it's a sweet, sweet thing.

[masterofweirdness]

Originally Posted by Grand Master Raziel

On the other hand, if you do win with a DH army, you've really accomplished something. Eldar players like to think that their army takes the most skill to win with, but they have it easy compared to we DH players. Playing Daemonhunters is like playing Eldar without all the long-range firepower, fast units, super-hard tanks, and monstrous creatures. So, when you do win, it's a sweet, sweet thing.

Which is why most smart people attach the DH armies to IG and SM and even Witch Hunters...

But, yes, the DH army has some really neat stuff!

[JoeGuardsman]

I have to play against the DH armies you guys are talking about. This is an army that people take up for all the wrong reasons and I have never seen people talk about the army with any semblance of intelligence and strategy. The Grey knight players i've been around have never taken advantage of the Shrouding rule and are way too willing to run their units helter skelter into my full compliment of guns.

[masterofweirdness]

See, this is the thing. People think that the DH is "GK with Inquistors"

Actually, its Inquistors with GK! Sure, GK make up most of the DH heavy support, and all of its fast attack. But the best troop choice for DH is stormtroopers, and the best elite is perhaps the Inquistor! (at least, perhaps). And without a doubt the GK Hero is to expesnive to be worth it in anything smaller than 2000pts.

[Grand Master Raziel]

Originally Posted by masterofweirdness

And without a doubt the GK Hero is to expesnive to be worth it in anything smaller than 2000pts.

I don't think that's true at all. Sure, the GK Grand Master has a high base cost, but you don't need to give him anything. He comes with a S6 force weapon , a storm bolter, a great armor save and a decent invulnerable save. He's battle ready for his base cost. By comparison, an Inquisitor Lord will run you a lot more points once you get done buying all the henchmen you need to make the Inqy Lord worth putting on the table, and the unit as a whole is fragile.

That said, I find it odd that the DH list doesn't have a decent mid-priced 2 Wound HQ choice, particularly for the GK Hero.