Heavy vs. Assault Weaponry

[Dragoon King]

Erus recently mentioned something about not having Heavy and Assault weapons in the same tac squad. I have plenty of antitank killyness as it is, so my question is this ; should I lose the Heavy Weapons in my Chaos tactical squads? I like Plasmaguns, so maybe 2 in each squad or mix a few with Meltaguns and Flamers. I have a cool Flamer from the new CSM box, so I'm gonna use it for sure. Thoughts?

[Baron Spikey]

Depends really on how your going to be using each squad, because if its an anti-tank squad you may want to keep a flamer in there to ensure that any enemy infantry approaching can be driven off. Vice versa with the meltagun and anti-infantry heavy weapons. In general though you're wasting the potential of at least one of the weapons by mixing.

Now 2 assault weapons is just double the fun, I was walking home from my mate's last night and an idea came screaming into my skull: Plasma Gun & Flamer.

I know the Plasma isn't an Assault weapon but hear me out- its the perfect combination to kill MEQs in cover because of that most blessed of things, armour saves.
There are 3 different saves you can get, Normal armour, invulnerable saves, and cover saves. But you can only pick to use one for a squad. The joy with Plasma/Flamer squads is that if the Marines (for example) choose to use their armour saves then the plasma can cut straight through their armour. If, in fear of this, the marines use the cover save (unless they're in a bunker this will be 5-4+) the flamer slices through that as well. Pretty much a win-win situation for you

Just a thought

[Brother Warchild]

I have always been a fan of keeping heavy weps to heavy weapon squads.Theres nothing wrong with having PP,MG and flamers in your sguads,but typical troop squads usually only shhot 1-2 times and are HH from there.Thats at least my history.To me my troops are kinda expendable in game terms,i use them to lock up units so more xpensive units can get into position.
Hope i helped at all

[Dragoon King]

Dang, I forgot Plasmaguns weren't Assault Weapons. So they can't fire on the move, correct? Or do they only get half range? I can't remember. I really like moving my infantry quickly into cover, so I don't wanna stop and pop too much. Hence why I may get rid of most Heavy Weapons.

[Lord Commander Erus]

1/2 the range.

Plasma guns honestly are quite fine to put in your squads, especially given the Bolt pistol, bolter, CCW nature of CSM now a days.

I'd say taking plasma gun and flamer is quite nasty, and meltagun/flamer is nice. However, mixing things like a heavy weapon (autocannon, heavy bolters, lascannon, missile launcher) with an assault (flamer, melta) is a big waste of the gun.

HOWEVER putting a plasma gun in their is not so bad, but again isn't needed. It's a little extra punch to the squad, and is more worthwhile than a flamer or a melta because you have the 24" range, and you can rapid fire it.

There's my opinion...

[Dragoon King]

Originally Posted by Lord Commander Erus

1/2 the range.

Plasma guns honestly are quite fine to put in your squads, especially given the Bolt pistol, bolter, CCW nature of CSM now a days.

I'd say taking plasma gun and flamer is quite nasty, and meltagun/flamer is nice. However, mixing things like a heavy weapon (autocannon, heavy bolters, lascannon, missile launcher) with an assault (flamer, melta) is a big waste of the gun.

HOWEVER putting a plasma gun in their is not so bad, but again isn't needed. It's a little extra punch to the squad, and is more worthwhile than a flamer or a melta because you have the 24" range, and you can rapid fire it.

There's my opinion...

So your saying if I do use a Heavy, like a Las, I should just drop the Assault? Hmmm. Actually, that's not a bad ideal, since that squad would be pretty static and it would save me some points. Teach me more!

[Lord Commander Erus]

If you take the las, dropping assaults is smart.

Generally, the Aspiring Champion for that squad shouldn't really have a power weapon (my fluff on the Black Saints prevents me from following this wisdom). If they are in CC to where they are using them, then things have went so wrong a power weapon or fist isn't likely to save yer arse.

Plus, don't forget Chaos Havocs can take up to 4x meltaguns or flamers!!! Put them in a drop pod in a full squad of ten, and (especially for the melta set up) give the champion a powerfist or weapon(flamers) and you have quite possibly the most deadly (albeit short ranged) heavy weapons squads ever!

[Dragoon King]

Originally Posted by Lord Commander Erus

If you take the las, dropping assaults is smart.

Generally, the Aspiring Champion for that squad shouldn't really have a power weapon (my fluff on the Black Saints prevents me from following this wisdom). If they are in CC to where they are using them, then things have went so wrong a power weapon or fist isn't likely to save yer arse.

Plus, don't forget Chaos Havocs can take up to 4x meltaguns or flamers!!! Put them in a drop pod in a full squad of ten, and (especially for the melta set up) give the champion a powerfist or weapon(flamers) and you have quite possibly the most deadly (albeit short ranged) heavy weapons squads ever!

Yeah, dropping the power weapon sounds good too. Havocs are nice (I actually have enough stuff to build a squad, I might do that in the near future). Chosen are good too, I don't want to give away particulars, because Hairy has a date with a nasty little Chosen squad on the Battlefield!

[Word Bearer 81007]

i dig my chosen squad 5 plasma guns. hahahah bring on the death, be it mine or my enemy.

[Dragoon King]

Originally Posted by word bearers 81007

i dig my chosen squad 5 plasma guns. hahahah bring on the death, be it mine or my enemy.

If it ain't dangerous to everyone, it ain't Chaos!

[Word Bearer 81007]

ha that's the way to think. i bet you don't mind playing with dreadnoughts either. i just hate the idea of a lascannon shooting my lord in the arse. oops failed save good by 200 points.

[Dragoon King]

Originally Posted by word bearers 81007

ha that's the way to think. i bet you don't mind playing with dreadnoughts either. i just hate the idea of a lascannon shooting my lord in the arse. oops failed save good by 200 points.

Actually, the only risky thing I take is Plasma weapons. Oh, and a Vindy sometimes. Ever had a Vindy blow itself up?

[r4wr89]

Originally Posted by Dragoon King

Actually, the only risky thing I take is Plasma weapons. Oh, and a Vindy sometimes. Ever had a Vindy blow itself up?

it can do that ? from scatter, i'm assuming, lol

anyways, i'm running twin plasmaguns in my 8 man tac squads and a melta and a flamer in my 6 man tac squads. it's nice to be able to charge, and previously when i was running 8 man tac squads with HB and a flamer i never seemed to be able to use both of the weapons-either one was out of range or i couldn't charge. i've only played 2 games with the 2 plamagun setup but i think i kinda like it more. course, my terrible rolls have killed a couple of them-more than once ! lol

as for what was discussed earlier, i definitely think mixed special weapons should be rapid-fire and heavy, not rapid fire assault and heavy. with the latter choice, it's really difficult to use all three weapons completely effectively. fully rapid fire squads are actually kinda fun, so try 8 bolters and 2 plasmaguns, or something of the sort

another common setup is the lasplas, likea 6 man squad with a lascannon and a plasmagun for mid-long range anti-tank. just use it before min/maxing is completely taken away from us :[ haha

[Dragoon King]

Originally Posted by r4wr89

it can do that ? from scatter, i'm assuming, lol

anyways, i'm running twin plasmaguns in my 8 man tac squads and a melta and a flamer in my 6 man tac squads. it's nice to be able to charge, and previously when i was running 8 man tac squads with HB and a flamer i never seemed to be able to use both of the weapons-either one was out of range or i couldn't charge. i've only played 2 games with the 2 plamagun setup but i think i kinda like it more. course, my terrible rolls have killed a couple of them-more than once ! lol

Oh, a Demolisher round being scattered back on the Vindy that fired it is BAD. I have a new rule now. DO NOT fire at enemies within 6"! I like Plasma weapons, I've overheated a few the last couple of games, but no friendly casualties were incurred.

[r4wr89]

ah, the marvels of power armor :P

[lynxrpken]

Originally Posted by Dragoon King

Erus recently mentioned something about not having Heavy and Assault weapons in the same tac squad. I have plenty of antitank killyness as it is, so my question is this ; should I lose the Heavy Weapons in my Chaos tactical squads? I like Plasmaguns, so maybe 2 in each squad or mix a few with Meltaguns and Flamers. I have a cool Flamer from the new CSM box, so I'm gonna use it for sure. Thoughts?

my thought is it depends on what you use the squad for. if you find yourself in CC very little and stay in range to fire but not easily assultable keep the fire power. on the other hand if you know you are going to be assulted ditch the heavys and prep for that.....I always build my list for what I need. (ie dont use heavy weapons on a take and hold mission. use tank support a heavy here and there and a LOT and I mean a LOT of assult weaponry. same for hold at all cost type mission. but for start on oppisot ends of the board and see who kills the most victory point type games I go with PAO (power assult ordinance )

happy hunting

[hashulaman]

You know pistols will be treated as "Assault 1" weapons in 5th edition.