Imperial Guard "Meatshield" Tactics

[Khadhar'phak]

Now, many people will scorn me for describing this as "Meatshield" tactics. But in essence, that's what they are! In my Latest army (Valhallans) I'm going to be using a LOT of infantry. The best thing about guard infantry? It's blummin cheap and comes in large numbers. But even the honest guardsman is a worthwile soldier, and you may not always want to sacrifice him. This is where CONSCRIPTS come in. I'll be taking two units of 50 to act as human shields and speed bumps for my Platoons. Your average conscript is only 4 or 5 points a model. They can swamp the enemy and keep those target priority checks at bay. Another useful shield is the Imperial tank. Now before you start screaming at me for placing an expensive piece in front of something less then half it's points, think about it. The average armour value of a Leman russ is front 14, side 12 and rear 10. That means that against most weapons it will just sok damage. Also, the psychological effect a tank has on the enemy is enough to distract him from the infanty. You could also use cheaper tanks, like the chimera. As well as all this, you can of course screen infantry with: MORE INFANTRY. If your opponent has too many targets to shoot at, then he won't be able to destroy everything. If you can see any kinks in this plan, please tell me, and mention how you would improve on it.

[experiment 626]

conscripts:
pros;
- cheap mobile mass of men!
- flamers negate their horribly low BS.
- can usually out number any opponent in an assault
- excellent for marching forwards in oder to take ground/objectives
- high numbers ensure the unit maintains it's 'scoring status' even after suffering a dozen or more casulties!
- can use the close order drill doctrine making them even more fearsome in assaults!

cons;
- rubbish Ld - they need an officer to babysit them.
- close order drill formation isn't great when there's even a few template weapons out there!
- large units can become very difficult to move about the battlefield...
- low BS/WS
- are not defined as "guard infantry" so cannot use many doctrines.
- cannot be transported

overall, an independant commissar is pretty much mandetory for using conscripts well! that means you'll only have 3 doctrine pts to play around with, somewhat limiting your overall force/organisation choices...
still, throwing 30-40 or more near-fearless troops onto an objective is going to cause a world of trouble for your opponent!
adding in 2-4 flamers will also make your opponent think twice before trying to gang up on your mob!

i wouldn't go 50 though - compare needing 26 casulties to lose scoring status as to 21 for a unit of 40. for almost the base cost of the much needed independent commissar, you're only gaining 5 extra bodies really...


as for the tank... a russ is ment for fire support, not so much driving up into the thick of it with your front line troops!
side armour 12 isn't that great, and by rushing your tank at the forefront of your force, you'll very likely be exposing your side armour to atleast 2 or 3 high end tank-hunting guns!

instead, consider the demolisher! side armour 13 makes all the difference... (S8 weapons only penetrate on a roll of a 6!) not to mention it has slightly more rear armour too!!! (again, rushing forwards with your tanks will expose this vulnerable point to any flanking enemy units!)

a heavy bolter on the front and a pair of heavy flamer side sponsons keeps the more expensive demolisher cheap, and yet horrifically effective at breaking open an enemy position! being able to deny an entrenched enemy their cover saves is key - anything not wearing power armour is going to die, usually on a to-wound roll of 2 or 3!!!

cheers!

[Plisken]

Originally Posted by experiment 626

conscripts:
pros;
- cheap mobile mass of men!
- flamers negate their horribly low BS.
- can usually out number any opponent in an assault
- excellent for marching forwards in oder to take ground/objectives
- high numbers ensure the unit maintains it's 'scoring status' even after suffering a dozen or more casulties!
- can use the close order drill doctrine making them even more fearsome in assaults!

cons;
- rubbish Ld - they need an officer to babysit them.
- close order drill formation isn't great when there's even a few template weapons out there!
- large units can become very difficult to move about the battlefield...
- low BS/WS
- are not defined as "guard infantry" so cannot use many doctrines.
- cannot be transported

overall, an independant commissar is pretty much mandetory for using conscripts well! that means you'll only have 3 doctrine pts to play around with, somewhat limiting your overall force/organisation choices...
still, throwing 30-40 or more near-fearless troops onto an objective is going to cause a world of trouble for your opponent!
adding in 2-4 flamers will also make your opponent think twice before trying to gang up on your mob!

i wouldn't go 50 though - compare needing 26 casulties to lose scoring status as to 21 for a unit of 40. for almost the base cost of the much needed independent commissar, you're only gaining 5 extra bodies really...


as for the tank... a russ is ment for fire support, not so much driving up into the thick of it with your front line troops!
side armour 12 isn't that great, and by rushing your tank at the forefront of your force, you'll very likely be exposing your side armour to atleast 2 or 3 high end tank-hunting guns!

instead, consider the demolisher! side armour 13 makes all the difference... (S8 weapons only penetrate on a roll of a 6!) not to mention it has slightly more rear armour too!!! (again, rushing forwards with your tanks will expose this vulnerable point to any flanking enemy units!)

a heavy bolter on the front and a pair of heavy flamer side sponsons keeps the more expensive demolisher cheap, and yet horrifically effective at breaking open an enemy position! being able to deny an entrenched enemy their cover saves is key - anything not wearing power armour is going to die, usually on a to-wound roll of 2 or 3!!!

cheers!

+1 Rep you shall recieve.

[Dan296]

snaps for stich! but no love for dan.

personally i have no problem with people usng meat sheild tactics with guard. fluff wise, thats what they are. the entire army is your discription of conscripts, and they swamp the enemy with numbers, supported by tanks. you dont neccesarily need independant commissars, just keep your command squad near them. you can place the conscripts in front of your leman russ's, instead of the leman russ as the sheild.
generally though, with the new rules, meat sheilds dont work. if youre playing anything with a good leadership it wont be effective. i for one have never failed a priority.
good tank sheilds would be demolishers, chimeras, and hellhounds.

[WNxHasoroth]

Ahh the swamping of Imperial Guardsmen. A tactic as old as, as, kissing babies on the fore head for the blessing of the Chaos Gods. (Trust me, it's been around a long time)

I've always found this tactic a little dodgy, but thats just because before I played Guard I played Marines and Eldar and I didn't like casualties much. This is a great tactic on the board, and its useful for messing with the oppnonents head.

"Mate, how much is that there group of 50 Guardsmen?"

"200 points. Mind giving me a hand with the deployment? I have another 600 points to go"

And the amount of casualties it'll save your real heavy hitters from recieving is worth getting Carpal Tunnel from lifting these guys.

However as mentioned you will need Independent Commisars for the Conscripts because if they flee thats alot of your main battle line deciding to high-tail it out of there.

[Gnr. Keil]

I'm sorry but i can't stand when people refer to any unit as meat sheild. All units have an offensive value and taking casulties is a defeatist tactic. You make the other guy die for his cause not vise versa.
Use those conscripts to advance on a flank and have your tanks advance on the other. Your opponet will be so worried about those big things on each side that your heavy weapons in your center wont get as much attention as they normally would. and if they do they have tanks and conscripts gaining enfelating fire.
I don't use conscripts but i do use two chimera's instead and it works to the same effect.

[WNxHasoroth]

Oh they do have value as an offensive force, but we like them better when they play the part of "Human Bullet Catcher". They are scary in assualts though, they bog down armies and flanks like you wouldn't believe.

I'd love to see a 32 strong Gaunt Brood go head to head with a fifty strong Conscript Platoon. No Commisars, no Synapse. Methinks it'll be interesting.

[experiment 626]

Originally Posted by Gnr. Keil

I'm sorry but i can't stand when people refer to any unit as meat sheild. All units have an offensive value and taking casulties is a defeatist tactic. You make the other guy die for his cause not vise versa.
Use those conscripts to advance on a flank and have your tanks advance on the other. Your opponet will be so worried about those big things on each side that your heavy weapons in your center wont get as much attention as they normally would. and if they do they have tanks and conscripts gaining enfelating fire.
I don't use conscripts but i do use two chimera's instead and it works to the same effect.

well you see, here's the thing; there's no love in the guard! a conscript platoon is anything from a cadian whiteshield unit to a worthless penal battalion! in the whiteshields, casulties simply mean that only the strong survive to enter the regiment proper... and noone is going to bemoan the loss of convicted criminals! (not even col shaffer! he'll just go find some more to abuse.)
so using a conscript unit as a meatshield does indeed truely fit in with actual guard tactics and background!

however, conscripts make a horrid flanking unit;
a) they're slow... 6"/turn doesn't cut it when trying to out-flank someone unless they're silly enough to expose their own flank...
b) difficult to manover... a single bottlekneck/choke-point or a peice of terrain that must be crossed is something large units like conscripts avidly avoid!
honestly, if i ever saw an opponent using his/her conscripts as flanking units, my drop troops are going right for the throat and targeting the now weakened center... the big conscript mobs simply don't have the speed or the manouverability to quickly react and counter a speedy foe.

nope, conscripts and their pet commissar belong right in the center of your main line as an unbreakable wall for your opponent to throw him/herself at!
or else you want to run them double-time right at an objective and sit on it safe in the knowlegde that your opponent will have to put alot of serious effort into droping a large mob to below 50% unit strength! meanwhile, your heavy guns and elite units as safe to go about their respective buisness!!!

cheers!

[Gnr. Keil]

I still don't like it.

[Tzeentch's Angels]

I hate these tacktics they are very effective aginst me. Playing Thousand Sons, I am always out numbered and a 30 to 1 troop ratio is murder. The few troops I have, have the problem of being able to focus only on small squads while not even touching the force as a whole. Even when playing with three Defilers and useing the Battle Cannon with deadly results I still can't come back from being so outnumbered. Its a great tactic!

[Librarian_Tigurius]

Originally Posted by Gnr. Keil

I still don't like it.

Low armor save armies always have the meat shields they use to cause havoc in the enemy army with minimal casualties of useful personnel

look at the orcs... they use grots as a screen for their boyz so that the grotz take the casualties and the more costly boyz do not... essentialy you are paying the 4 pts per model to get more wounds for everyone else in the army the conscripts arn't good at shooting they are a force designed to get hit by the enemy and keep ticking... you run them right up the middle and they have the toughness and armor save of a regular guardsmen but are much cheaper (relatively... 1/3 less then a regular guardsmen) and if you take some flamers then they are extremely cheap yet effective against infantry in the extreme... 10 points for a model that has the ability to remove 5-6 other models from the enemy... 5 flamers firing on one marine unit then charging in will most likely destroy the marine unit also the dry rush from guardsmen up front is scary to shooting armies because you can lock thier shooting units into close combat because you can absorb most everything they throw at ya and still get there...

Personally i would take WS and BS of 1 if they lowered the points cost to about 2 or 3 points per model... i love the mass infantry guard army... i have one planned where i have 300 models in 1500 pts... i only cut out about 50 or so and take some vehicles... it is devistating...

[The Sword 88]

I cant remeber but cant you giv the conscripts a vox operator and give you officer with 9 Ld(or 10 if a commissar is with him) a master vox and use his Ld?

That was you can avoid taking the Idie Commissar doctrine and take Iron Will so that even if the squad gets shot to hell it wont take a penalty.

If you cant use voxes on conscripts this is void

[Ikarus]

I don't believe in meatshield dependent tactics.

I think there should be suicide squad tactics to stop fast units from reaching your lines. If you hold off a unit with your 50 unit mass, you block LOS.

THIS IS BAD. This allows your enemy to have a fat screen and get into combat better. Its better to send remnant squads into enemies, to hold them in close combat in one turn or so, and pull men backwards to shoot them.

[newpaintbrush]

Gimmeh! Rep power!

Oh, I have to post first, and you have to like it too?! Maaan . . .

Well, okay.

I disagree with Ikarus in "disbelieving in meat shield tactics". You can disbelieve in Santa Claus all you want, but when you try to grab his wallet at the mall, he's still gonna press charges. Not that I would know, of course.

But back to the subject -

Yeah, your opponent can make that nice fat LOS blocking line. I've done it myself. All your opponent needs is some terrain, even a wrecked vehicle, and some fast moving units, and you've got a problem.

I favor mass plasma and demo charges, plus Hardened Vets for countercharging. You don't even need tanks; just get a load of Last Chancers with demo charges.

[The Sword 88]

Yeah but then you have to use a special character which is not nearly as much fun as making up your own fluff and unit and such

[lynxrpken]

Originally Posted by Tzeentch's Angels

I hate these tacktics they are very effective aginst me. Playing Thousand Sons, I am always out numbered and a 30 to 1 troop ratio is murder. The few troops I have, have the problem of being able to focus only on small squads while not even touching the force as a whole. Even when playing with three Defilers and useing the Battle Cannon with deadly results I still can't come back from being so outnumbered. Its a great tactic!

I hate tactics that work against me too lol jk


I use conscripts in this way a lot very effective charging into combat with 50 conscripts even if 15 of them die due to a higher ld (very lucky opponet) you still having charging bonus for a total of 70 attacks. sence half are going to miss (dice hate gaurd) 35 hits 15 fail to wound still leave 20 wounds even sisters 3+ save will have a hard time not suffering massive casualties

[325504503]

Isn't it possible to take the Specail Character Colonel Commisar Gaunt? He is an IC and there is no need to spend a doctrine point to get him! He is also relatively cheap for 75 points! the codex doesn't say you have to be running Tanith Doctrine to use him.