nids vs guard

[lord marcus]

whats so good about nids vs guard. (pro's cons would be helpfull, and will recive a thanks.)

[Grix]

One likes to shoot and stay out of HtH, the other likes HtH and hates to be shot at.

[hairyyahoo]

not really sure what you're asking for here marcus. you want guard tactics against nids or nid tactics against guard? or both?

[lord marcus]

the pro's and cons of each army

[hairyyahoo]

oh ok. well this shoulda gone in the tactica discussion section. moved it for ya.

i don't know much about playing with nids. i do know that they are scary as all hell in the assult phase. tides of gaunts are really effective against infantry and genestealers will make a mess of anything! they don't like gettin shot much though, at least the little ones don't, the big ones have an anoying tendancy to shrug off the vast ammounts of fire they attract. they can shoot a little bit but are much more effective in cc.

guard are kind the other way around. the shoot very well as they are able to bring staggering ammounts of heavy weapons to the field but ain't so good in combat. having said the they can bring down tough opponents through sheer weight of numbers. the guard is also a very customizable army what witht he doctrines system, so you can taylor them to your style.

that is very basic but then you didn't ask too specific did ya?

[experiment 626]

Originally Posted by lord marcus

the pro's and cons of each army

the imperial guard:
pro's;
- shooty as hell! no army can pack heavy weapon like the guard can. between support squads and your dedicated 'stand and shoot' infantry squads, you can quite literally blow most anything off the table at will.

- lots of specialised units. ratlings for snipers... rough riders are arguably one of the best anti-meq assault units when they charge. hardened vets offer an insane amount of options! (think chaos chosen!) storm troopers offer more heavily armoured and better shooters who have access to special deployment modes... conscripts offer huge meatshields to tie-up your opponent's best assault troops for ages!

- great Ld bonuses. officers will give their base Ld to nearby units. commissars make this Ld even better! doctrines like 'iron discipline' can turn your guardsmen into marine equivalents in terms of Ld!!!

- lots of tanks! the guard have some of the best tanks in the entire game, and can usually pack quite a few into a standard 1500pts list!

- doctrines. these rules give you near-limitless flexability and custumisation potential... you can only take 5 of 'em, (unless you use a 'named regiment' who sometime have more!) but just those 5 can drastically alter the way your guard army will play... (for example, you can have your entire army deep strike when you take the 'drop troops' alternate organisation doctrine!)

cons;
- guardsmen die rather quickly to pretty much everything... that's why you have 100+ of the buggers! it's generally a huge army numbers-wise which also means they take awhile to build upto any substancial pts value!

- flashlighs suck... face it, on it's own, your lasgun is hardly awe-inspiring! when you put 50 of 'em at the same target however, you tend to get some better results. still, you're going to find out that S3 ap- isn't anything to write home about...

- poor close assault skills. guardsmen tend to win close combats through sheer numbers alone. sure they have a few units capable of combat, but overall, assaulty armies will chew through guardsmen 9 times out of 10...
having to throw extra bodies into the melee will also cut down on your ranged capabilities too, so in the end, it might be worth it to just let the poor blokes get smoked and get as many of your nearby forces out of harm's way as is possible!


tyranids:
pros;
- insanely good close combat specialists! nearly everything in your army excells in the assault phase... add to this the fact you can very easily give your entire army 'rending' bio-morphs and the tyranids are indeed the scariest assault troops in the game!

- 'living ammo'. god how i love living ammo! re-rolls are lovely things and you'll quickly learn to take guns with this special rule above most others except on a few bugs... (a barbed strangler and a venom cannon or two are needed to knock out enemy armour at range.)

- lots of monstrous creatures. a 1500pts or higher 'nid army can pack a total of 8 montrous gribblies! hope your opponent brought out the big guns!

- fast. all tyranids either have the 'move through cover' skill, or else gain the advantages of being monstrous creatures... no other army can out-pace the tyranids save the dark eldar and/or a fully mechanised craftworld eldar army.

- near-fearless troops. as long as you keep your 'synapse web' intact, all your tyranids are 'fearless'. also, synapse prevents your multi-wound gribblies from that annoying 'instant death!' rule when being hit by any weapons double their base 'T'!

- highly psychic. tyranids can put almost as many psykers on the board as eldar can... add to this fact that the hive mind powers are rather nasty and unplesent for any opponent!

- huge numbers. tyranids are a hoard army. you should pretty much always outnumber your enemy... (guard & orks being the only armies that can really match you gribbly for man/greenie!)

cons;
- terrible ranged potential... most tyranid guns only shoot about 18"... (the venom cannon & barbed strangler being your only real long-ranged options.) couple this at best a mediocre BS3 for 99% of your force, and tyranids are hardly likely to win a protracted fire-fight!

- awful anti-tank. tyranids generally don't kill to many tanks by shooting them! unless you dedicate a carnifex or your hive tyrant to the task, you'll find that enemy tanks will become the bane of your exisitance! while all the fleshy enemies tend to die rather quickly, tanks will require more effort and thought.
skimmers are a plain nightmare for tyranids!

- huge numbers = lots and lots of models! like the guard, you're going to need 'oodles of hungry gribblies to swamp your opponent with. this means lots of time and effort into building your army!

- few heavily armoured troops. overall, the best armour save in your army will be 4+... tyrants, tyrant guard, broodlors 'fexes & zoanthropes have 3+ or 2+ saves, but usually, most basic guns will cut your teeming hoards to stringy ichor!


hope this helps,
cheers!

[lord marcus]

i think you just did everything i asked of this thread stich, i wish i could hug you right now because of it.

[Vorafex]

As far as 'nids vs. IG...i pretty much allways hit the guard on 2 flanks at once...and which ever one crumbles first is where i direct a majority of the swarm and start "rolling-up" his frontline. Making the IG focus on 2 fronts at once will divide his fire and will trap fleeing troops between your 2 rampaging forces...like a "pincher" motion. This will sometimes even fluster the other player enough to start making rash decisions.
Panic is your friend!

[CHIAPETOFDOOM]

I would vouch for the Tyranids as fantastic close combat potential also.

Carnifexs are your friend, if given multitudes (a pair of crushing claws is always good, maybe with some scything talons) of str 10 attacks that can tear through IG armored divisions and Baneblades, and make mincemeat out of his troops. That's what I use at least.

Also if you concider using Tyranids, think about buying or converting (since they're expensive) Lictors, I find that they almost always strike first, if you use them carefully, and can take out key nests of enemy troops and weapons teams!

[Timber-WoIf]

of all the times i fought nids, there was only one time i wasn't tabled. that one time, i fielded a 2000 pt armored company. i tabled the nids. basically, if guard are to have any chance, there either has to be A: no terrain on the board (not likely) or b: more points in tanks than in infantry.

[lynxrpken]

for one well constructed gaurd should mow through nids especially if you take out the command sections and make them retreat(cant remember the name of the unit.) all I can say is ordanance ordanance ordanance. bolter bolter bolter (heavy bolters of course) no need for lascannons here and if you have AC exterminators work on hordes like a knife through butter. if they do get units cluse enough ie move fleet of foot assault two squads of genestealers (x10 per) can take out a four squad infantry platoon in one assult phase (I know it suckes). but if you can hold back and shoot A LOT gaurd has nids covered all day

[Sir_Servo]

I would have to agree with most of Experiment 626's list except for one thing.

My Bugs are a great mix of shooty and assault. Bugs if you build them correctly can lay down amazing amounts of firepower with re-rolls. And this is the Key! RE-ROLLS = unhappy oponent.

my force contains 3 squads of Warriors. All have 5 models
1 = Scything Talons, Rending Claws and Leaping, they keep up with the Hormaguants for assault purposes.
2 = Death rippers and Venom Cannons. Think of 18" range Strength 3 Assault 4 with re-rolling missed wounds. that gives you 20 shots from each unit, 40 shots totoal from 8 models! That hit on 4's or 3's depending on unit upgrade and then you get to re-roll all failed wound rolls. Nasty these things are. and this doesn't include the venom cannon.

Next include 2 units of 16-24 Gaunts allso with Death rippers. These guys give you 18" range Assault 2 re-roll missed wounds as well. 32-48 shots and re-roll misses. God I love these guys.

Add in some Pyscic woogieness from Hive Tyrants and you got your self a pretty decent shooting platform and all of their weapons are Assault witch means you continue to move forward blasting away then charge into combat and mop what is left.

That is just my oppinion on the Bugs and shooting.



As for Guard... well for me it depends on how lucky I am that game. If my gun fire can't hit the broad side of the barn or if my ordinance keeps scattering to the wind then I am screwed, but if I roll a bit above average then I am usually good to go to whipe the field clean.

Deployment is the most important thing for your I Guard, Keep close attention to lines of fire and where they can take advantage of cover if they get assaulted. If you are destened to get into a fight you might as well strike first.

Hope this helps,
Casey