Raptors

[Dragoon King]

So, the Raptors lost the hit and run rule but gain Deep Strike. Would I be better served Deep Striking my 2 ten man squads of Raptors or should I just hold them in reserve? Since I can't assault the turn I DS them in, I really don't see a way to make them effective using the DS rule.

[hairyyahoo]

bolt on a couple of meltas and drop them behind a tank. thats one way to make them effective deep strikers

[SteveBerenyi]

but still i'd deploy on the table. as they have winged backpacks they are NOT jump infantry, they just move as jump infantry (assuming you have the older models)

[hairyyahoo]

urm...how's that steve? under unit type in the codex it clearly says jump infantry.

[Lord Commander Erus]

Originally Posted by SteveBerenyi

but still i'd deploy on the table. as they have winged backpacks they are NOT jump infantry, they just move as jump infantry (assuming you have the older models)

I'm hoping that's sarcasm. Because if not, I'll need to get the 'Stick.

[Dragoon King]

I gotta agree with Steve, Hairy. I think they would be better used deployed on the table than Deep Striking them.

[Drax]

you are way too eager with that stick Erus.

Steve - are you thinking of Possessed that gain the jump pack ability?

careful deep striking these guys unless you can get another unit up quick. as with every other deep striker, a bad scatter roll can leave them very vulnerable.

personally i prefer letting them creep up behind cover and being sure where they land, rather than risk them landing in a star cannon crossfire for instance! (this was under both the chaos and the eldar's previous codicies. you know, when the raptors didn't actually have deep strike! not only did i lose an 8 strong squad of expensive raptors, i did so illegally too!)

[SteveBerenyi]

under the wargear discription, i read that winged backpacks (old raptors) are treated as having wings. not jump packs.

[hairyyahoo]

depends on how big the table is, how much cover there is, how deep the deployment zones are, how far away the armies deploy at the start of the game. there's a lot of variables that deep striking can cut out if you think about how to use it properly.

i'm not saying that your views are wrong guys but why do you think they would be better off on the table from the start?

[Lord Commander Erus]

Originally Posted by SteveBerenyi

under the wargear discription, i read that winged backpacks (old raptors) are treated as having wings. not jump packs.

Steve... Any model that has wings, winged backpacks, jump packs, or a pair of feathery appendages coming out their arse, is counted as jump infantry. The only difference I have ever seen is the DAEMONIC FLIGHT upgrade possessed, Aspiring Champions, Lords and such could have. It stated they moved as jump infantry, as did the Raptors wargear which was the same, However, under their unit profile it also says their infantry type is jump inantry, so they still could have deep struck, as one of the abilities of Jump infantry is the deep strike USR.

[SteveBerenyi]

Originally Posted by hairyyahoo

depends on how big the table is, how much cover there is, how deep the deployment zones are, how far away the armies deploy at the start of the game. there's a lot of variables that deep striking can cut out if you think about how to use it properly.

i'm not saying that your views are wrong guys but why do you think they would be better off on the table from the start?

Mainly, the reserves roll. if you deploy on the table, you cut that part out and can still shoot and assualt in your first turn (depending on table size)

@ Erus, well i guess if i read the whole thing i'd notice that eh?

[Lord Commander Erus]

Originally Posted by SteveBerenyi

Mainly, the reserves roll. if you deploy on the table, you cut that part out and can still shoot and assualt in your first turn (depending on table size)

@ Erus, well i guess if i read the whole thing i'd notice that eh?

Indeed. But a lot of people miss that bit, it's amazing how many do actually. I'd say damn near 90% of those who used raptors never noticed it. While not THAT amazing, it can be useful in say... a mega battle where there is a HUGE amount of terrain between you and the enemy.

[SteveBerenyi]

true. very true.

[God_Grinder]

i personaly think its a situational desission. in some cases you would want them on the field from the get go, and in other cases you might want them later in the game as a late punch in the right place. depending on the enemy and the terrain.
thats my 2 cents.

[Dragoon King]

Thanks for the tips, guys. I guess it will depend on table size, and I'm gonna try DS them and using them as reserves. I plan on 2 20 man squads, so I may DS one and then deploy the other. Should I equip them with Meltabombs?

[Lord Commander Erus]

Originally Posted by Dragoon King

Thanks for the tips, guys. I guess it will depend on table size, and I'm gonna try DS them and using them as reserves. I plan on 2 20 man squads, so I may DS one and then deploy the other. Should I equip them with Meltabombs?

I would equip the DS squad with them, but not the table squad, depending on pts. level we're talking about.

[hairyyahoo]

giving melts to 10 guys gets expensive real quick. do it if you can spare the points, otherwise leave the melta bombs for the 5 man squads (10 is massive overkill for anything short of a super heavy!)

[experiment 626]

Originally Posted by Dragoon King

Thanks for the tips, guys. I guess it will depend on table size, and I'm gonna try DS them and using them as reserves. I plan on 2 20 man squads, so I may DS one and then deploy the other. Should I equip them with Meltabombs?

deep striking is an art. it takes practice to know when to go for it, when to hold back, and just how to tool your squads to best suit their defined role...

for an anti-tank raptor squad for example, you don't want 10 guys for many reasons;
a) expensive
b) too large
c) they're not assault troops
an ideal deep striking squad of raptors who hunt tanks would be just 6 men w/2 meltaguns. maybe a power fist on the champ and definately melta bombs all 'round!
with only 6 men, you only need to form 1 'circle' around your 1st model when the squad lands. this means you can be much more daring in your placement of the unit, and scatter won't hurt you nearly as much as it's fairly unlikely you'll lose half the squad by landing too close to the target! (in my experience, small squads only die if the 1st guy gets too close...)

generally though, you don't want to typically deep strike raptors as they are assault troops... still, keep your eyes open for that cunning late-game trap you can set-up. perhaps there's a nice piece of large forest which will nicely hide you from any line of sight? next turn you can hop over the trees and slam your raptors into your opponent's flank while your main assault troops hit the front lines!
or else maybe that guard player has carelessly left their master-vox unit hidden and cut-off from any support?! (you'll know them right off the bat - they'll have a commissar + a guy with a large vox-caster on his back and they're hidden well out of sight of anything!)

hope this helps,
cheers!

[Dragoon King]

Originally Posted by experiment 626

deep striking is an art. it takes practice to know when to go for it, when to hold back, and just how to tool your squads to best suit their defined role...

for an anti-tank raptor squad for example, you don't want 10 guys for many reasons;
a) expensive
b) too large
c) they're not assault troops
an ideal deep striking squad of raptors who hunt tanks would be just 6 men w/2 meltaguns. maybe a power fist on the champ and definately melta bombs all 'round!
with only 6 men, you only need to form 1 'circle' around your 1st model when the squad lands. this means you can be much more daring in your placement of the unit, and scatter won't hurt you nearly as much as it's fairly unlikely you'll lose half the squad by landing too close to the target! (in my experience, small squads only die if the 1st guy gets too close...)

generally though, you don't want to typically deep strike raptors as they are assault troops... still, keep your eyes open for that cunning late-game trap you can set-up. perhaps there's a nice piece of large forest which will nicely hide you from any line of sight? next turn you can hop over the trees and slam your raptors into your opponent's flank while your main assault troops hit the front lines!
or else maybe that guard player has carelessly left their master-vox unit hidden and cut-off from any support?! (you'll know them right off the bat - they'll have a commissar + a guy with a large vox-caster on his back and they're hidden well out of sight of anything!)

hope this helps,
cheers!

I like the ideal of a 5 or 6 man Raptor anti-tank sqaud for DS. I tend to think of more is better, but I see your point here, Stitch. Since I will already have one more squad of Raptors (at least 10), they can be used for sneaky anti-troop attacks. I think I'll go with the 5 man anti-tank squad. Thanks for the help!