The Stupid Power of Rending - 40K Terra

SteveBerenyi · 01-17-2008

lets throw my "VDR Madness" as erus calls it out the window.....

Baal Predator fires it's TL ass can and HB sonsoons on a squad of say 6 SMs causing lets say 7 wounds. (not terribly unlikely)

i get say 1 rending shot (rolled a 6 with the TL ass can) and i choose to make the suped up vet sergent take the wound from it....

wow 1 ded vet sergent and the other 6 could likely kill/demoralize the rest of the unit.

Ugly, yes.

ok now here is where it gets REALLY stupid

lets say i get pretty lucky and get 2 rending hits.... that would be 1 dead vet sergent and 1 dead other AUTOMATICALLY!!!! and the rest get to make saves.

you say the ass can's rending power is little? i beg to differ.

Mart007 · 01-17-2008

rending is way overpowered. I have Harlies, and it is an abusable nasty thing!

SteveBerenyi · 01-17-2008

see the power of rending is not is its ability to kill instantly, or the fact that it can penetrate armor. there are plenty of other things that can do those.

the stupidity of rending is that when combined with certain other rules NAMELY torrent of fire (which is not too hard to do with an ass can and a squad of termies with storm bolters) then it becomes simply insane.

masterofweirdness · 01-17-2008

... which is why rending will be toned down in 5th ed...

Baron Spikey · 01-17-2008

...and also why torrent of fire will no longer exist in 5th edition...

Mart007 · 01-17-2008

Hurrah for 5th!! May it come soon!

Lord Commander Erus · 01-17-2008

Add an LRC to the mix of the terminators w/ ass cans and storm bolters...

Baron Spikey · 01-17-2008

Admittedly according to the rumours wound allocation will now come before you make saves- imagine only your Vet. Sgt failing and all the rest passing, now that would be unlucky

Warmaster Romulas · 01-17-2008

but can you MAKE the vet sgt take that rending hit
wouldnt it be ableto go overto another model in range

Lord Commander Erus · 01-17-2008

So, how does this allocating before stuff work?

Warmaster Romulas · 01-17-2008

unless it is H2H the owning player chooses which model to remove as a casualties

Baron Spikey · 01-17-2008

but in 5th you choose what's hitting who before you roll the saves. And each 'specialist' (heavy weapon, apothecary, sgt etc) is allocated separately from the rank and file, who can be grouped together.

Currently with torrent of fire (or blows in CC) if the amount of wounds suffered number more than the total model count of the unit the attacking player gets to decide which model rolls their armour save first

Warmaster Romulas · 01-17-2008

so the example would only work with torent of fire on a 6model squad
that was cought out in the open in front of a baal class predetor

SteveBerenyi · 01-17-2008

or say a 10man termie squad with an ass can and a bunch of Storm Bolters. or whatever else. or even genestealers in HTH.

Lord Commander Erus · 01-17-2008

Ok.. so... Yeah.. Still not getting it, but sure..

experiment 626 · 01-17-2008

keep in mind that you should be rolling each type of weapon individually! so in the example of the ball pred, you'd roll your ass-can shots seperate from your heavy bolters! (so that you can't so easily pull off such a dirty, filthy ploy!

)
same goes for template/blast weapons; you resolve each template seperately... (otherwise ingaming just how god-awful those dominions w/4x flamers under devine guidance would really become!

)

i'm sad to see the 'torrent' rules go though... but if it makes those annoying power fists a wee bit easier to bump-off then great! it's about time we saw some plain 'ol power toys become the staple 'veteran sergeant' equip!

cheers!

Lord Commander Erus · 01-17-2008

Stitch, I don't think he was implying to roll together and pick out 6's..I think he was implying th exact opposite actually.

JoeGuardsman · 01-17-2008

Torrent of Fire works like this. You roll to hit and to wound. If you scored as many wounds as there are models then you can force the opponent to roll one armor save on a specific model chosen by you. These shots all have to come from the same unit in the same volley but the opponent may choose which wound he takes the save from.

This is why I can't shoot a broadside with lasguns and a meltagun and get a good kill on a broad side with two shield drones. Man I wish I could do that.

Lord Commander Erus · 01-17-2008

I get ToF now... But was askign about this new change to allocating wounds rumored in 5th... I'm not sure if I should like it... Or be nervous/upset.

Baron Spikey · 01-18-2008

Example:

You have 8 Marines in a Tactical Squad.
1 Vet Sgt
1 Heavy Bolter
6 Bolters

You get shot at and 8 wounds are caused. You have to roll for your Vet Sgt & Heavy Bolter Marine separately from the 6 Bolter Marines- if there was a variety of weapons that hit the squad you can choose what hit who (so the Vet Sgt was hit by a lasgun rather than a lascannon) but you no longer roll all your saves and take off which ever models you want if say 6 saves are failed.

Is that at all helpful?

Warmaster Romulas · 01-18-2008

so the shooter decides who takes what hit?
or is it the shootie?
letting the shooter decide goes againt the foundation of 40k that would really suck

masterofweirdness · 01-18-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warmaster Romulas

so the shooter decides who takes what hit?
or is it the shootie?
letting the shooter decide goes againt the foundation of 40k that would really suck

Its the shootie, I believe.

Shootie... lol.

Lord Commander Erus · 01-18-2008

Then that would actually be fairly balanced and realistic, if it is indeed the shootie.

Warmaster Romulas · 01-18-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by masterofweirdness

Its the shootie, I believe.

Shootie... lol.

thats what i thought
i said that earlier
the owner of the model chooses who is a casualty as long as they are in range

UltraMar · 02-01-2008

I have two opinions on this rending thing. 1 is that it is a nice thing to have and honestly how many models are you going to be killing with rending, if you dont get rending with assault cannon then their str 6 wont do much to a vehicle. 2 DEATH COMPANY ARE RIGED, I MEAN THEY GET FEAL NO PAIN FURIOUS CHARGE FREE PTS COST AND RENDING!!!!!! NOT FAIR!!!

masterofweirdness · 02-01-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by UltraMar

I have two opinions on this rending thing. 1 is that it is a nice thing to have and honestly how many models are you going to be killing with rending, if you dont get rending with assault cannon then their str 6 wont do much to a vehicle. 2 DEATH COMPANY ARE RIGED, I MEAN THEY GET FEAL NO PAIN FURIOUS CHARGE FREE PTS COST AND RENDING!!!!!! NOT FAIR!!!

The death company is probably overpowered... but... they seem to be the worst of the "rending madness" that GW seems to have... at least, from what I've seen.

And ya... people hate rending... but it is a bit overrated. While Stitch may advocate using a Assault cannon as a tank-hunting weapon I won't be cause you

01-17-2008	#1 (permalink)
SteveBerenyi Just A Regular Joe. Again Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Butte, Montana Posts: 2,518 Rep Power: 4 Thanks: 194 Thanked 252 Times in 159 Posts Blog Entries: 5	The Stupid Power of Rending lets throw my "VDR Madness" as erus calls it out the window..... Baal Predator fires it's TL ass can and HB sonsoons on a squad of say 6 SMs causing lets say 7 wounds. (not terribly unlikely) i get say 1 rending shot (rolled a 6 with the TL ass can) and i choose to make the suped up vet sergent take the wound from it.... wow 1 ded vet sergent and the other 6 could likely kill/demoralize the rest of the unit. Ugly, yes. ok now here is where it gets REALLY stupid lets say i get pretty lucky and get 2 rending hits.... that would be 1 dead vet sergent and 1 dead other AUTOMATICALLY!!!! and the rest get to make saves. you say the ass can's rending power is little? i beg to differ. __________________ WIN/DRAW/LOSS On The Battlefield 5 / 1 / 4

01-17-2008	#2 (permalink)
Mart007 Lieutenant Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: UK Posts: 1,008 Rep Power: 1 Thanks: 102 Thanked 93 Times in 68 Posts Blog Entries: 1	Re: The Stupid Power of Rending rending is way overpowered. I have Harlies, and it is an abusable nasty thing! __________________ Follow my log (dont worry, it's a project log) http://www.40kterra.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3223

01-17-2008	#3 (permalink)
SteveBerenyi Just A Regular Joe. Again Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Butte, Montana Posts: 2,518 Rep Power: 4 Thanks: 194 Thanked 252 Times in 159 Posts Blog Entries: 5	Re: The Stupid Power of Rending see the power of rending is not is its ability to kill instantly, or the fact that it can penetrate armor. there are plenty of other things that can do those. the stupidity of rending is that when combined with certain other rules NAMELY torrent of fire (which is not too hard to do with an ass can and a squad of termies with storm bolters) then it becomes simply insane. __________________ WIN/DRAW/LOSS On The Battlefield 5 / 1 / 4

01-17-2008	#5 (permalink)
Baron Spikey Captain Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 1,577 Rep Power: 2 Thanks: 59 Thanked 111 Times in 91 Posts	Re: The Stupid Power of Rending ...and also why torrent of fire will no longer exist in 5th edition...

01-17-2008	#6 (permalink)
Mart007 Lieutenant Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: UK Posts: 1,008 Rep Power: 1 Thanks: 102 Thanked 93 Times in 68 Posts Blog Entries: 1	Re: The Stupid Power of Rending Hurrah for 5th!! May it come soon! __________________ Follow my log (dont worry, it's a project log) http://www.40kterra.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3223

01-17-2008	#7 (permalink)
Lord Commander Erus First Chaplain Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 6,395 Rep Power: 6 Thanks: 170 Thanked 343 Times in 223 Posts Blog Entries: 5	Re: The Stupid Power of Rending Add an LRC to the mix of the terminators w/ ass cans and storm bolters... __________________ "Truth is infinite. It is defined by our perception of the facts; therefore we can never know absolute truth, we can only guess at it. A man who knows he has done no wrong needs no redemption, regardless of the views of others. The truth is what he believes it to be. A man who knows he has done wrong can only be redeemed when he chooses to forgive himself." -Lord Inquisitor Balkoth Black Saints Adeptus Astartes Chapter

01-17-2008	#8 (permalink)
Baron Spikey Captain Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 1,577 Rep Power: 2 Thanks: 59 Thanked 111 Times in 91 Posts	Re: The Stupid Power of Rending Admittedly according to the rumours wound allocation will now come before you make saves- imagine only your Vet. Sgt failing and all the rest passing, now that would be unlucky

01-17-2008	#9 (permalink)
Warmaster Romulas Major Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: U-S-A!!U-S-A!!U-S-A!!U-S-A!!U-S-A!! Posts: 1,771 Rep Power: 2 Thanks: 204 Thanked 122 Times in 96 Posts	Re: The Stupid Power of Rending but can you MAKE the vet sgt take that rending hit wouldnt it be ableto go overto another model in range __________________ ""A true patriot is a lover of his country who rebukes and does not excuse its sins." Frederick Douglass "A toll is a toll, and a roll is a roll, if we dont get no tolls then we dont eat no rolls" Little John Robin Hood: Men in Tights CLICK HERE TO SEE My July Painting Comp Entry Chaplain Charlie

01-17-2008	#10 (permalink)
Lord Commander Erus First Chaplain Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 6,395 Rep Power: 6 Thanks: 170 Thanked 343 Times in 223 Posts Blog Entries: 5	Re: The Stupid Power of Rending So, how does this allocating before stuff work? __________________ "Truth is infinite. It is defined by our perception of the facts; therefore we can never know absolute truth, we can only guess at it. A man who knows he has done no wrong needs no redemption, regardless of the views of others. The truth is what he believes it to be. A man who knows he has done wrong can only be redeemed when he chooses to forgive himself." -Lord Inquisitor Balkoth Black Saints Adeptus Astartes Chapter

01-17-2008	#11 (permalink)
Warmaster Romulas Major Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: U-S-A!!U-S-A!!U-S-A!!U-S-A!!U-S-A!! Posts: 1,771 Rep Power: 2 Thanks: 204 Thanked 122 Times in 96 Posts	Re: The Stupid Power of Rending unless it is H2H the owning player chooses which model to remove as a casualties __________________ ""A true patriot is a lover of his country who rebukes and does not excuse its sins." Frederick Douglass "A toll is a toll, and a roll is a roll, if we dont get no tolls then we dont eat no rolls" Little John Robin Hood: Men in Tights CLICK HERE TO SEE My July Painting Comp Entry Chaplain Charlie

01-17-2008	#12 (permalink)
Baron Spikey Captain Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 1,577 Rep Power: 2 Thanks: 59 Thanked 111 Times in 91 Posts	Re: The Stupid Power of Rending but in 5th you choose what's hitting who before you roll the saves. And each 'specialist' (heavy weapon, apothecary, sgt etc) is allocated separately from the rank and file, who can be grouped together. Currently with torrent of fire (or blows in CC) if the amount of wounds suffered number more than the total model count of the unit the attacking player gets to decide which model rolls their armour save first

01-17-2008	#13 (permalink)
Warmaster Romulas Major Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: U-S-A!!U-S-A!!U-S-A!!U-S-A!!U-S-A!! Posts: 1,771 Rep Power: 2 Thanks: 204 Thanked 122 Times in 96 Posts	Re: The Stupid Power of Rending so the example would only work with torent of fire on a 6model squad that was cought out in the open in front of a baal class predetor __________________ ""A true patriot is a lover of his country who rebukes and does not excuse its sins." Frederick Douglass "A toll is a toll, and a roll is a roll, if we dont get no tolls then we dont eat no rolls" Little John Robin Hood: Men in Tights CLICK HERE TO SEE My July Painting Comp Entry Chaplain Charlie

01-17-2008	#14 (permalink)
SteveBerenyi Just A Regular Joe. Again Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Butte, Montana Posts: 2,518 Rep Power: 4 Thanks: 194 Thanked 252 Times in 159 Posts Blog Entries: 5	Re: The Stupid Power of Rending or say a 10man termie squad with an ass can and a bunch of Storm Bolters. or whatever else. or even genestealers in HTH. __________________ WIN/DRAW/LOSS On The Battlefield 5 / 1 / 4

01-17-2008	#15 (permalink)
Lord Commander Erus First Chaplain Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 6,395 Rep Power: 6 Thanks: 170 Thanked 343 Times in 223 Posts Blog Entries: 5	Re: The Stupid Power of Rending Ok.. so... Yeah.. Still not getting it, but sure.. __________________ "Truth is infinite. It is defined by our perception of the facts; therefore we can never know absolute truth, we can only guess at it. A man who knows he has done no wrong needs no redemption, regardless of the views of others. The truth is what he believes it to be. A man who knows he has done wrong can only be redeemed when he chooses to forgive himself." -Lord Inquisitor Balkoth Black Saints Adeptus Astartes Chapter

01-17-2008	#16 (permalink)
experiment 626 Filthy, Dirty Radical Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: lost in a blizzard, somewhere near toronto! Posts: 3,060 Rep Power: 4 Thanks: 38 Thanked 283 Times in 207 Posts	Re: The Stupid Power of Rending keep in mind that you should be rolling each type of weapon individually! so in the example of the ball pred, you'd roll your ass-can shots seperate from your heavy bolters! (so that you can't so easily pull off such a dirty, filthy ploy!) same goes for template/blast weapons; you resolve each template seperately... (otherwise ingaming just how god-awful those dominions w/4x flamers under devine guidance would really become!) i'm sad to see the 'torrent' rules go though... but if it makes those annoying power fists a wee bit easier to bump-off then great! it's about time we saw some plain 'ol power toys become the staple 'veteran sergeant' equip! cheers! __________________ "Who are you to question my methods?! A 'Puritan' is simply a coward who hides behind a veil of pretended faith and denounces his loyal brother as a traitor out of simple jealousy!" - Inquisitor Odion

01-17-2008	#17 (permalink)
Lord Commander Erus First Chaplain Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 6,395 Rep Power: 6 Thanks: 170 Thanked 343 Times in 223 Posts Blog Entries: 5	Re: The Stupid Power of Rending Stitch, I don't think he was implying to roll together and pick out 6's..I think he was implying th exact opposite actually. __________________ "Truth is infinite. It is defined by our perception of the facts; therefore we can never know absolute truth, we can only guess at it. A man who knows he has done no wrong needs no redemption, regardless of the views of others. The truth is what he believes it to be. A man who knows he has done wrong can only be redeemed when he chooses to forgive himself." -Lord Inquisitor Balkoth Black Saints Adeptus Astartes Chapter

01-17-2008	#18 (permalink)
JoeGuardsman Corporal Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Back in NYC Posts: 475 Rep Power: 2 Thanks: 3 Thanked 33 Times in 26 Posts	Re: The Stupid Power of Rending Torrent of Fire works like this. You roll to hit and to wound. If you scored as many wounds as there are models then you can force the opponent to roll one armor save on a specific model chosen by you. These shots all have to come from the same unit in the same volley but the opponent may choose which wound he takes the save from. This is why I can't shoot a broadside with lasguns and a meltagun and get a good kill on a broad side with two shield drones. Man I wish I could do that. __________________ "Only the insane have strength enough to prosper, only those that prosper may truly judge what is sane."

01-17-2008	#19 (permalink)
Lord Commander Erus First Chaplain Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 6,395 Rep Power: 6 Thanks: 170 Thanked 343 Times in 223 Posts Blog Entries: 5	Re: The Stupid Power of Rending I get ToF now... But was askign about this new change to allocating wounds rumored in 5th... I'm not sure if I should like it... Or be nervous/upset. __________________ "Truth is infinite. It is defined by our perception of the facts; therefore we can never know absolute truth, we can only guess at it. A man who knows he has done no wrong needs no redemption, regardless of the views of others. The truth is what he believes it to be. A man who knows he has done wrong can only be redeemed when he chooses to forgive himself." -Lord Inquisitor Balkoth Black Saints Adeptus Astartes Chapter

01-18-2008	#20 (permalink)
Baron Spikey Captain Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 1,577 Rep Power: 2 Thanks: 59 Thanked 111 Times in 91 Posts	Re: The Stupid Power of Rending Example: You have 8 Marines in a Tactical Squad. 1 Vet Sgt 1 Heavy Bolter 6 Bolters You get shot at and 8 wounds are caused. You have to roll for your Vet Sgt & Heavy Bolter Marine separately from the 6 Bolter Marines- if there was a variety of weapons that hit the squad you can choose what hit who (so the Vet Sgt was hit by a lasgun rather than a lascannon) but you no longer roll all your saves and take off which ever models you want if say 6 saves are failed. Is that at all helpful?

01-18-2008	#21 (permalink)
Warmaster Romulas Major Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: U-S-A!!U-S-A!!U-S-A!!U-S-A!!U-S-A!! Posts: 1,771 Rep Power: 2 Thanks: 204 Thanked 122 Times in 96 Posts	Re: The Stupid Power of Rending so the shooter decides who takes what hit? or is it the shootie? letting the shooter decide goes againt the foundation of 40k that would really suck __________________ ""A true patriot is a lover of his country who rebukes and does not excuse its sins." Frederick Douglass "A toll is a toll, and a roll is a roll, if we dont get no tolls then we dont eat no rolls" Little John Robin Hood: Men in Tights CLICK HERE TO SEE My July Painting Comp Entry Chaplain Charlie

01-18-2008	#23 (permalink)
Lord Commander Erus First Chaplain Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 6,395 Rep Power: 6 Thanks: 170 Thanked 343 Times in 223 Posts Blog Entries: 5	Re: The Stupid Power of Rending Then that would actually be fairly balanced and realistic, if it is indeed the shootie. __________________ "Truth is infinite. It is defined by our perception of the facts; therefore we can never know absolute truth, we can only guess at it. A man who knows he has done no wrong needs no redemption, regardless of the views of others. The truth is what he believes it to be. A man who knows he has done wrong can only be redeemed when he chooses to forgive himself." -Lord Inquisitor Balkoth Black Saints Adeptus Astartes Chapter

02-01-2008	#25 (permalink)
UltraMar Trooper Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Im with him <-> Posts: 100 Rep Power: 1 Thanks: 6 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: The Stupid Power of Rending I have two opinions on this rending thing. 1 is that it is a nice thing to have and honestly how many models are you going to be killing with rending, if you dont get rending with assault cannon then their str 6 wont do much to a vehicle. 2 DEATH COMPANY ARE RIGED, I MEAN THEY GET FEAL NO PAIN FURIOUS CHARGE FREE PTS COST AND RENDING!!!!!! NOT FAIR!!!