vindicators!

[r4wr89]

okay. well i just want to know the various reasons why almost nobody uses the vindicator. okay, so the model is old. but a few conversions makes it spiffy and new looking...what are the exact downsides to it ?

thanks :] i just want to know..haha
-ant

[Brother_Ambrose]

I used to use the vidicator frequently. Give it the Power of the Machine Spirit upgrade and it'll rip apart anything. PotMS lets it move 6" and fire, and it can always fire as long as the weapon is not destroyed or the vehicle itself destroyed. You also effectively make the range 30" since it can move and shoot. BS 2 doesn't matter for ordnance .The Vindicator is particularly useful in city fights, where the short range isn't as much of an issue. I won't use mine any more, but that's just because Dark Angels can't give PotMS to their Vindicators . They're easy to convert from a razorback. That's how I did mine, modeled after the forgeworld model. I'll try to get some pictures up.

[Templar Mikeel]

The Vindicator is the tank that I use for a support/battle tank. It's less expensive than a Predator, works as a great bullet catcher, gives great support fire, and can turn enemy vehicles into mush.

[Dan296]

it also has a very short range for a battle tank. i only use mine, which is a converted griffon morter tank, in cityfights were it cant be shot at 20 times lumbering across the table.

[r4wr89]

okay. so from what i hear, vindicators are really more useful in cramped areas-where they won't be the target of everything that has LOS, right? :]

hmmm..i almost want to use them just because they are so unused. i figure i might be able to hide them in some cover and truck them around only when the enemy line advances enough for me to handle it. and the effective range [i think i read somewhere above] can be 30 inches, with PotMS, yes? that is quite pricey though, 10 points more than a predator with twin-linked and sponson lascannons-quite a price!

any other thoughts ? :] thanks all.
-ant

[Dan296]

it is quite pricey. i think whirlwinds are the more effective ordnace availible to the space marines, because of the longer range and much lower price. especially against horde armies.

[experiment 626]

personally i feel the biggest reason for the whirlwind trupming the vindicator is the ability for the whirlwind to fire indirectly - a very, very powerfull advantage and one that's well worth the loss of the demolisher cannon's superior strength & ap...
basically, a vindicator needs to put itself in harm's way to kill the enemy - the whirlwind does not!

while PotMS is a great upgrade for the vindicator, it's also rather pts heavy and as we all know, one lucky shot will still slag your 'uber siege tank!

in short, the vindicator is predictable in that its short ranged cannon needs to get close and thus will give away it's intended target, while the indirect and much longer ranged whirlwind will keep your opponent guessing as to just where the hammer blow will land!

cheers!

[r4wr89]

hmm...the "keep it guessing" part is a good point, thanks stitch, and everyone. i'll mull it over. i'm trying to keep my army as infantry/bike/land speeder packed, avoiding heavier vehicles because i like the speed and my army is based on stealth, not big guns.

i'll think about it though. whirlwinds could be interesting.. :]
-ant

[Dan296]

Originally Posted by experiment 626

personally i feel the biggest reason for the whirlwind trupming the vindicator is the ability for the whirlwind to fire indirectly - a very, very powerfull advantage and one that's well worth the loss of the demolisher cannon's superior strength & ap...
basically, a vindicator needs to put itself in harm's way to kill the enemy - the whirlwind does not!

this is why i replaced the vindicator, in my old list, with a whirlwind. just a better choice overall.

[last of the bloodthirsty]

i played a tourney the other day and my vindicator racked up enough kills to equal at least 7 times its points. only one was a "city fight" with open alleys. i find its basic price is low enough that its worth it. black templars have very little choice in long rang stuff so to go along with the theme i go with the close up assault and bash some heads in

[experiment 626]

Originally Posted by last of the bloodthirsty

i played a tourney the other day and my vindicator racked up enough kills to equal at least 7 times its points. only one was a "city fight" with open alleys. i find its basic price is low enough that its worth it. black templars have very little choice in long rang stuff so to go along with the theme i go with the close up assault and bash some heads in

well, i guess congratulations are in order! you seem to have pretty good luck using the vindicator...

the few times i used mine, every enemy gun turned to point at it the second it poked its cannon out from hiding!
mind you, the new vehicle rules allowing you to move & fire with ordinance are a big help to tanks like the vindicator...

cheers!

[Brother_Ambrose]

i've had similar experiences in the city... One game my vindicator w/ potms killed 2 leman russ tanks, 3 sentinels, a unit of hardened veterans and a unit of rough riders...lol

[Dan296]

hmm...perhaps ill always bring my vindicator along just in case we play cityfights, then ill replace the whirlwind.

[r4wr89]

Originally Posted by Brother_Ambrose

i've had similar experiences in the city... One game my vindicator w/ potms killed 2 leman russ tanks, 3 sentinels, a unit of hardened veterans and a unit of rough riders...lol

haha i'm having trouble deciding if that was good tactics, luck, or both :]
i'm still mulling it over. right now though i'm just gonna run with a bike/speeder DIY chapter...tanks maybe later :] thanks all!
-ant