Beginning Black Templars

[Grandmaster Ezra Godfrey]

So I'm slowly (and I mean slowly due to lack of money) starting Black Templar for my next 40k army. This is my second army after my Grey Knights and as I become more wanting out of our wonderful game that I've been submersed in for over a year, I want my BT's to be my army that's there for both fun, through all the conversions I have planned, and winning because I feel as if I've been deemed uncompetative in the eyes of my local gaming group and I want to change their minds without being known as the hated power gamer.

Now here is where I need all of your inputs. I can't for the life of me figure out how my BT will be played, other than the usual foot-slogging army that I'm drifting toward, and seeing several different Black Templar lists, this is the strategy that seems to work the best.

So, guys and gals, I would greatly appreciate it if you could help me in any way. Thanks!

[Inquisitor Rosenadel]

Yep, I think that's the best way to go. Maybe some Rhinos, but the rule that makes them run forth into battle is what makes footslogging preferrable because they can get there fast anyway, and you don't need to spend 50 points on a rhino.

Big squads are probably best, i.e. at least 10. However, you can make this easier on the points by adding neophytes. I'm acutally unfamiliar with how the BT codex works, but that's what I have gathered. I've also heard Chaplains are essential if you want a little more control over where your army goes. Plus, they're just the plain old best Marine HQ out there.

Foot sloggers all the way. And if you take an Emperors Champion.. Take 'Accept Any Challenge, No Matter the Odds" or "Suffer Not the Unclean to live". The first vow is my favorite, and is just vicious!

[Fluevog]

"Accept Any Challenge" is a great vow, but "Uphold the Honor" has its uses. First, its the cheapest of the four and grants your footsloggers a modest invulnerable save and immunity to Pinning - if even one Initiate makes his invul. save, its made back its points. Downside though is that your support squads (las/plas) can't take a cover save.

An alternative to the footslogging list is the Crusader-a-go-go. All squads in Crusaders that tear up the field and are able to rush out to assault. However, it sounds like you're trying to move away from perceived power-gaming, so this might not be the best route.

[Khadhar'phak]

I personally go for a "combined arms" list. In basic terms: a fotslogging vehicular army. For example: I take two maxed out combat squads including neophytes armed with assault weaponry and flamer/plasma gun, two minimum fire support squads with bolters and whatever heavy weapon I feel like mounted in rhinos, a venerable dread for closecombat support, a longrange tank hunter dread and deepstriking assault termies led by my Chaplain. The Emperor's champion will often take the "uphold" vow, my castellen just joins one of the assault squads where and when he's needed. And there's only one technique here: MOVE THEM FORWARD WITH THE LONG RANGE SUPPORT. Rhinos make excellent cover btw

I'm not a big fan of rhinos or transports, except the LRC. Mainly because to get to where you're people aren't likely to die (For SM) you have to have a land raider, and then you can't really move and fire all that well. I personally don't use the 'Uphold" vow because I focus on a heavy troop mob that assaults, so the "Accept Any Challenge" vow is most useful for me. Uphold is probbaly best for the type of army most SM players have (use of rhinos, etc..). I'm playing some Black Templars, and he runs an army that typically has "Uphold" as its vow. So i'll let you know, after facing it, my opinion.

[Grandmaster Ezra Godfrey]

Thanks for the help guys!
I don't really enjoy Transports either, other than Land Raiders.

So I was thinking about it, and I wanted to get at least 3 big Crusader Squads (10 Intiates/ 8 Neophytes) that go down the field in little lanes, using "Accept Any Challenge" to move faster. All the while, my Master of Sanctity will be attached to an Assault Squad that ties up any infantry that can prove to be a nuisance.

But what's your side on 6 Man Las/Plas Squads for support?

Sounds like a solid plan! I don' ever advocate plasma unless on a vehicle, but then again I just have bad rolls for them (4 rolls of 1 on a to hit on a single marine in three turns! WTF?). Tactic and theory wise, they should work just great, although I tend to balance my support squads with missle launcher or las and the other style to be one for infantry/rate of fire (heavy bolter, autocannon, etc..). But thats just me.

[experiment 626]

Originally Posted by Grandmaster Ezra Godfrey

Thanks for the help guys!
I don't really enjoy Transports either, other than Land Raiders.

So I was thinking about it, and I wanted to get at least 3 big Crusader Squads (10 Intiates/ 8 Neophytes) that go down the field in little lanes, using "Accept Any Challenge" to move faster. All the while, my Master of Sanctity will be attached to an Assault Squad that ties up any infantry that can prove to be a nuisance.

But what's your side on 6 Man Las/Plas Squads for support?

hmmmm... i'd stick with only two large 16+ man squads for the simple reason that lots of big squads tend to get in eachother's way, especially when trying to use cover to help protect your flanks!
i'm starting my own custom chapter using the templar rules and for my main assault units, i've taken a 16 man and a 12 man unit... (neophytes are key to uping your body count!) with a slightly smaller unit size, i'm hopefull that this will allow me to make better use of cover and/or avoid getting the units tangel up on the way in!

another thing that's important in assault units - never, ever for any reason give them a plasma gun!!! it's a rapid fire type weapon, so it'll stop you from assaulting should you fire it...
my personal preference is the meltagun, simply because we've all had those brain-****s when we've flamed a unit and accidently left ourselves out of charge range!

for supporting fire, i'm using the following;
- two 6 man squads, one w/rocket launcher & the other w/lascannon. each squad is 5 initiates and 1 neophyte. they sit back and hunt tanks/MC's
- techmarine w/4 heavy bolter servitors. pure anti-hoard! carefull deployment will allow this small unit to avoid any small/basic arms fire and use their longer range to hurt things!
- 3 attack bikes w/heavy bolters for some fast flank support
- vindicator... ordinance is too much fun!
a bit different i suppose, but then i'm barking anyways!!!

i'm really not a fan of the las/plas as you can see as i hate waste... the point is, for the first 2-3 turns, that plasma gun is going to be sitting idle because it won't have the range, and/or it won't be able to hurt the target you're shooting! once infantry starts coming into range, the lascannon becomes total and compleat overkill...
those 10pts can be much better spent on something else like say a power weapon for your assaulty unit!
these smaller 6-man squads are also easier to kill anyways because they lack bodies... basically in a templar force, they're one and only job is to hunt tanks and thus, they use the 48" range of their big gun to protect them.

hope this helps,
cheers!

[Templar Mikeel]

If you want a list idea, check out mine: 2000 points of Cityfight BT Its still under scrutiny, even though no ones responded in two weeks.nIn my first official game, I used the base of it, 15 man CS squad without crusader, 5 man assault squad, 2 6 man fire support squads, a marshal, EC and a Vindicator. It was a 1000 point game against Dark Eldar, and, it was a slaughter. My assault squad reduced a 20 man DE squad into 3.

So basicly, your army is sounding good so far. Get at least one big CC squad with a LRC to get in fast, and its a good idea for a either your Commander(if you use on) or especially your EC to have a transport. Give any CC Crusader squads power weapons or fists, and maybe 2 6 man Crusader squads with bolters for fire support.

Hope that helps(sorry for the mini battle report)

[Word Bearer 81007]

2 squads of 10 initiates with powerfist
1 squad of 5 assault terminators 3 w/lighting claws 2 w/thunder
each of these units will be set in a land raider crusader (heavy support)
a tooled up sword brethren squad in a razorback transport (las upgrade)
an emperors champion
and a master of sanctity

the plan is to have the entire army geared up in vehicles and find out if your opponent can destroy the land raiders before you get to close combat.

i have not play tested it yet but the concept seems right

[r4wr89]

Originally Posted by Khadhar'phak

I personally go for a "combined arms" list. In basic terms: a fotslogging vehicular army. For example: I take two maxed out combat squads including neophytes armed with assault weaponry and flamer/plasma gun, two minimum fire support squads with bolters and whatever heavy weapon I feel like mounted in rhinos, a venerable dread for closecombat support, a longrange tank hunter dread and deepstriking assault termies led by my Chaplain. The Emperor's champion will often take the "uphold" vow, my castellen just joins one of the assault squads where and when he's needed. And there's only one technique here: MOVE THEM FORWARD WITH THE LONG RANGE SUPPORT. Rhinos make excellent cover btw

you use a pretty even CC/shooty army...i'm just wondering how it works out for you. i've thought of doing that but i always just end up heading back towards shooting...lol

but in the spirit of not stealing threads, i'd say that trying out a list of CC and mixed army lists to see which one you prefer. that'd be the best...i don't really see BT as gun like people though..lol.

:] just a thought or two...about to see if i can get my hands on a BT codex to read up on them! :]
-ant

Originally Posted by r4wr89

you use a pretty even CC/shooty army...i'm just wondering how it works out for you. i've thought of doing that but i always just end up heading back towards shooting...lol

but in the spirit of not stealing threads, i'd say that trying out a list of CC and mixed army lists to see which one you prefer. that'd be the best...i don't really see BT as gun like people though..lol.

:] just a thought or two...about to see if i can get my hands on a BT codex to read up on them! :]
-ant

Actually, just like Emperors Children, the BT are quite skilled with their guns. And the most deadly threat comes from when people use the balanced list, just as our friend here is. I would suggest play testing it severely before investing horribly, as balanced armies are the kinds that need a lot of tweaking, and often different strategies/makeup depending on the enemy (Speakign from personal experience). Overall, a good list. One I would be interested, and even a little nervous about risking my perfect tournament/gamesday playing record against! Hell, I could easily see this list beating my own. Balanced armies are always fun to watch play, because it just dissolves into a bloody mess with no clear winner until the last casaulty is taken.

Just a few questions/suggestions though... What is your master of sanctity equipped with? And why not toss a jumpack on him, if you can meander the points? That would make him a lot more effective (Though he would be solo, and you may not want that). I might also advise scaling back on the LRC to maybe include something more varied in the list, but those work just as well! I may just have to familairize myself with our battlefield system and call you out boyo!

[chaplain luthor]

this is kl reading this thread has realy helped me with writing my 1500 point list which ive been thinking about for some time

i have a 749 point (i didnt want to take and emperors champion yet) list which im a little disapointed with cuz its gone against waht most peaple have said and use transports and small squads

i have a chaplain
with plasma pistol for an extra punch

he is with a 5 man crusader squad with a power fist and they all mounted in a razor back with las cannon

i also have a ten man squad of 6 initiates with power weapon and flamer (the best way i find to deal with kroot my main adversary as my brother collets them) and 2 bolters

there with 4 nephyes there all in a rhino

i also have a venrable dred

is this not a good idear for an army list if so im kinda bummed becouse i almost finished it