Black Templars - Tournament Viable?

[Fluevog]

Was scanning the Bolter & Chainsword forums and it seems that some people have a hard time with Templars in a tournament setting.

Apparently, the Righteous Zeal rule makes it very hard to Hold any sort of objective as you are forced to move towards the enemy (out of cover!).
I have some ideas on minimizing this, though.

Besides this, are there any other glaring weaknesses that the list has over other MEQ's?

[Torquemada Coteaz]

I don't know, I've never tried BT in a tournie. (so far my BT stands at not-complete status, mostly unpainted)
However, Chaplains would help out the righteous zeal problem right? i remember them being able to direct the movement of RZ.
Oh, and probably the best you can hope for with RZ is that, let enemies take objectives (somehow delaying your units reaching them) then let em rip once opponents are on objective. that way you can try to wipe em out or at least deny them the objectives and end up being right there :P

[Chapin Ketra]

Ok i might be a noob but after reading the same thread on bolter, all i see is that fact that the BT have become harder to play but not impossible.

i like ther fluff and models and will be playing them and having fun

now as for tournaments from all i have read and seen all armies can do well but after all is said and done it comes down to
1 Tactics
2 luck ( ie picking the right balnce for who you play)
3 the DICE

if i am wrong what the hell i still love em

[Torquemada Coteaz]

As I don't have th new BT dex (yeah i was going to buy one at the auction today, but was short by 5 bucks for the new dex so i bought the old codex armageddon instead for 2 bucks )
I'm fairly sure that BT can use pods. so USE THEM. they're your best bet of not Righteous Zealing. also razorbacks, LR/LRC and vindicators come to mind. (since vehicles arent affected)

[Torquemada Coteaz]

quick note: chaplains. good for directing it's squad where you want to go not nearest unit, somewhat eliminates the RZ setback.

I believe, however, that GW made templars as more of a Fluff army than a very very tournie viable. perhaps there is something we have not forseen that can be exploited to great advantage too.

[Levin]

As I've said in countless other posts, Templars are simply a castrated army. Not that that is a bad thing. Well, ok, it is a bad thing, but what this means is that they have so many restrictions on what they can and cannot take, it forces players to come up with almost identical lists that are easily predicted by opponents. As far as strategy is concerned, you really don't have many options as you can't take any infiltrators at all unless you take swordbrethren, which then can't take furious charge (what they need to take).

Templars are basically just normal marines with few upgrades, no anti psyker abilities, no heavy support infantry, scouts, indirect fire... And in return they get an ability that forces them to charge headlong through dangerous terrain and into dreadnoughts. (assuming you're opponent is smart, or lucky).

Compare them to Blood Angels, where every model in the army has furious charge and the ability to charge foward without being shot to pieces first. Not to mention assault cannon predators and furiousos, and deathcompany.... the list goes on. Templars get the Emperor's champ, which apparently can now be taken in any marine army via the latest FAQ.

I guess I shouldn't be such a whiner about these guys, but they're the only army that I own that I'm disappointed about starting... And they were my first!

[Torquemada Coteaz]

Well.
antipsyker lies in the vow. but its not much.
also like i said before, templars are more about fluff / cool models than playability

[Levin]

I guess I'll give you that one, but with the upcoming release of dark angels, Templars seem outdated. DA's look way more medieval than Templars. And have a more interesting storyline line too. I mean, who doesn't love the anti-hero?

[Torquemada Coteaz]

well.
I guess DA going to be cool.
But DA are monastic while templars are, well, crusaders.
BT - crusading knights
DA - repenting monks

[Captain Baine-Night Lords]

ah finally i have found a weakness against the Black Templar........now i can finally have a good strategic plan.....Death to the False Emperor

[Levin]

Finally? I can't imagine a more straitfoward army than tempars other than, well, thousand sons.

[Torquemada Coteaz]

haha. my BT (which i basically havent started save for chaplain, helbrecht, grimauldus and 2 blisters of Sword Brethren) has been put off for my new DH and WH lists i'm planning for xD

[Khadhar'phak]

Lets face it. BT aren't the objective holding type. They run into combat and kill everything else that trys to take the objective.

[experiment 626]

Originally Posted by Khadhar'phak

Lets face it. BT aren't the objective holding type. They run into combat and kill everything else that trys to take the objective.

alot depends on the type of objective... basically games that involve controlling table quarters and/or scoring units aren't half bad for templars. you can leave any heavy armour to claim table quarters, and when scoring units are important, templars usually have a huge advantage because they can take large units!

games involving running forwards and say holding the central bunker are difficult mind you as the templars will run off the moment they're shot at!
try using your vehicles to screen defending units and/or at least cut down on the number of enemy units that can draw a line of sight...

overall, templars are just as viable as say world eaters.
you simply need to be a bit more carefull in your planning and always keep the mission objective in mind at all times!

cheers!

[Perturabo]

Thats why you must playtest your army several times and know all its weaknesses before you venture into a tournament-many times I have heard tales of woe all starting with "Well I was trying somthing new when...."

[experiment 626]

Originally Posted by Perturabo

Thats why you must playtest your army several times and know all its weaknesses before you venture into a tournament-many times I have heard tales of woe all starting with "Well I was trying somthing new when...."

we have a regular templar player at astro toronto who does fairly well overall with claiming objectives...

instead of rhinos though, he uses drop pods to place around objectives in order to block LOS to his units! the pods also force a large number of target priority tests, and eventually even with a Ld9 or 10 army, you're bound to fail some eventually! (hell, i've failed three in a row and had to shoot some stupid tau drones - who were pined!!! )

another tactic he's used is dreadnoughts, (again, usually in a drop pod!) placed in front of his marines in order to force even more target priority tests and hopefully again, draw fire away from his vulnerable and tenacious templars!

cheers!

[last of the bloodthirsty]

i played bts when armeggedon was it for us and you know what i loved it!!!! but now im limited and i have to pay for shiz. as angry as i was i can make a decent army which many try to get away from. 2 huge crusader sqauds 3 sqauds of sword brethren with furious charge and hq squads with vindicators and pred. pretty small for a 2000 point and must be played right but it can pay off big time

[rintinglen]

Originally Posted by last of the bloodthirsty

i played bts when armeggedon was it for us and you know what i loved it!!!! but now im limited and i have to pay for shiz. as angry as i was i can make a decent army which many try to get away from. 2 huge crusader sqauds 3 sqauds of sword brethren with furious charge and hq squads with vindicators and pred. pretty small for a 2000 point and must be played right but it can pay off big time

I have a Black Templars Army which has yet to win a game. The new codex emasculated them, and they give up too much to get too little. They can be dangerous, but they can't win, at least not consistently.

[sjclem1]

I enjoyed reading everyone's comments about the tournament abilities of the BT army. I like the one I have, although I've yet to fight them in an official tourney (give me a break, I'm new). Anyway, I think that having so many negatives concerning our army only forces us to think of different ways of using them. IF we are meant to be the Crusading KNIGHTS..than lets use them that way. I am planning to use an HQ squad with infiltrate, Sword Brethren Squad with infiltrate, a Templar Assault Squad with Jump packs, and Terminators with teleport. If I can get these units into Hand to Hand than the shooting against my remaining crusader squads will be minimized and the second wave will be used to hold ground.