Alienhunters

[Inquisitor Rosenadel]

Question is simple: what do you think should go into Codex: Alienhunters?
I have noticed a trend with the Inquisition Codexes (I'll use Daemonhunters as an example):

HQ:
Inquisitor Lord
Ordo-Militant Unit (Grey Knight Hero)

Elite:
Ordo-Militant Unit (Grey Knight Terminators)
Special Quirky Unit (Daemonhosts)
Inquisitor
Death Cult Assassains
Officio Assassinorum Operative

Troops:
Inquisitorial Storm Troopers
Ordo-Militant Unit (Grey Knight Squad)

Fast Attack:
Ordo-Militant Unit (Grey Knight Teleport Attack)

Heavy Support:
Ordo-Militant Unit (Grey Knight Purgation Squad)
Ordo-Militant Vehicles (Land Raider, LRC, Dreadnought)
Orbital Strike with Ordo-Specific speciality (Barrage Bomb)

However, the chamber militant of the Ordo Xenos (the Deathwatch Marines) are even rarer than Grey Knights (I believe). So, I think they would have to make up some new units. I thought they might be more Special Ops-type units. My thoughts are:

HQ:
Inquisitor
Deathwatch Kill-Team

Elite:
Explorator Team (Mechanicus Adepts that give each other specialities based on their area of concentration, i.e. Biologis, Physic, Technicus, etc.)

Black-Ops (sneaky Imperial Guard but better-type squad, like the US Rangers, Marines, etc. who can designate targets for pinpoint airstrike, etc.)

Death Cult Assassains
Officio Assassinorum Operative
Inquisitor

Troops:
Inquisitorial Storm Troopers

Headhunter Squad (Mercenaries who the Inquisitor either buys or strong-arms into aiding him... even some alien-types, like Kroot... I explain this by saying that there are radical Alienhunters just as radical Daemonhunters use daemonhosts)

Fast Attack:
no idea...

Heavy Support:
Explorator Vehicle (customizable, Mechanicus vehicle that is experimental and therefore can be customized to suit the mission.. and able to be a walker or a tank, with options that can and cannot be taken for each)

Repressor (I remember seeing this in the old Sisters of Battle section of the GW site. It looked like an infantry-suppression vehicle, a couple H. bolters and storm bolters would be cool... able to upgrade to H. Flamers and flamers...)

So... what do you think?

[Steellegioncpt]

Very good sir. But I dont think Imperial Guard would be involved any way. If you think about it, bug are numerous...so elite Imp guardsmen just would not compete with the quick numerous, etc. aliens. Thus the perfect Space Marines are sole dominators of the xenos.

[Inquisitor Rosenadel]

Originally Posted by Steellegioncpt

Very good sir. But I dont think Imperial Guard would be involved any way. If you think about it, bug are numerous...so elite Imp guardsmen just would not compete with the quick numerous, etc. aliens. Thus the perfect Space Marines are sole dominators of the xenos.

Well, you could use the Black Ops for hunting down genestealers, or raveners. In my head, they are like Assassains, but not quite as good. They each have two wounds (but S3, T3), and a special kind of auto-rifle I called a MYAR: Mass-Yield Auto-Rifle, which is an assault 3 weapon with strength 3, ap 3. They can be upgraded to carry sniper rifles, etc. They could still be useful.

[Torquemada Coteaz]

The thing is with Alienhunters, they need an all new line of models and stats. that's REALLY hard to make. and they can't make DeathWatch 100pt/per marine and ubr-powerful like they planned to make with GK originally (as i was told by GW staffers and HQ staffers) it just ISNT FUN.
ok DH had models already, and GK, and WH had sisters, so not much new there. but AH has to be ALL DIFFERENT and thats really difficult, so most likely wont be an AH codex or AH as a standalone full army at all. (again from staff and their connections)
this greatly dissapointed me! i'll go into detail on the reasons for no AH later. (no time now g2 work)


EDIT/UPDATE:
ok it looks like im sort of against AH here but im not.
in fact im absolutely devastated and pissed at there being most most likely no AH codex/army.
But heres the facts (gained from GW store staffer and HQ staffers, including one that used to work at UK studio):
SM inqie, done
sisters inqie, done
iggie in the inqies, done
inquisitors, done, a lot.
psych powers, done.
how to make a GOOD representation for DW thats original? basically none (or so it seems to studios)
gw apparently believes there is little or no way to make a balanced, fun, completely original codex and line of models.
I'm told it will most likely appear as a Chapter Approved Amendment to DH codex stats, and maybe a small line of models, OR an expansion of the DW killteam rules in CA with most units "referenced" to DH and WH codexes.
plus there is NOTHING out there on AH and its off radar, meaning its at least 2 years away

[Torquemada Coteaz]

Anyways onto the Units part:
Troops: deathwatch killteams. like GK except they no true grit, bolters only, selection of diff shells, and probably some rules about their "veterancy", and some sort of rule for all aliens somewhat-akin to "hatred" of warhammer

[Steellegioncpt]

Hey Does any remember the Hollywood Movie Marines, from a white dwarf. The ones that are like 100 points per model everyone has like assualt cannons, and Lascannons can go throw things and such. Thats what Deathwatch should be like the Movie Marines

[Inquisitor Rosenadel]

Originally Posted by Steellegioncpt

Hey Does any remember the Hollywood Movie Marines, from a white dwarf. The ones that are like 100 points per model everyone has like assualt cannons, and Lascannons can go throw things and such. Thats what Deathwatch should be like the Movie Marines

Hell Yeah!

Well, I'm disappointed if they don't make a codex. However, I see their point. I just hope they make new options avaliable to Inquisitors. Some Daemonhunters stuff would work and some Witchhunters stuff would work, but I think there needs to be some Alienhunters-specific wargear and a couple weapons. And 2 special Henchmen, too.

[Grandmaster Ezra Godfrey]

I agree that there will never be a true AH codex... So, I propose we make our own little AH Codex. It won't be official of course, but I really think it can be done and played if it's fair enough and people agree...

[Torquemada Coteaz]

Yes they should be like movie marines.
but more importantly they SHOULD NOT. NEVER!!!!!!!
the thing is, they're fun oh yeah. but remember what the guy said "gross abuse of game statistics"!
its fun for you, but very very NOT fun for whoever your opponent is.

Basically my idea is that since likely they dont make codex, they make that CA stuff so that it includes extra wargear, DW stats, a few of new inqie units, maybe a new psych power or 2, and rest is "see DH codex" or something like that.

[Inquisitor Rosenadel]

Originally Posted by Grandmaster Ezra Godfrey

I agree that there will never be a true AH codex... So, I propose we make our own little AH Codex. It won't be official of course, but I really think it can be done and played if it's fair enough and people agree...

I actually have made stats for all the units I described... with the exception of the Deathwatch and Kroot, who already have rules, and new equipment and psychic powers for Inquisitors.

I think that a radical Inquisitor should be able to take certain Xeno psychic powers. Only 1 or 2 per alien codex, and you would have to pass on 2D6+3. Or the army should be able to take 0-3 alien weapons, or have "Xeno Points" to determine what can be put in the army: a psychic power like "Mind War" might be 4 or 5 points (out of, say 5), while a Pulse Rifle might be 1 or 2. Certain units have certain "Xeno Points", kinda like Faith Points the Adepta Soroitas have. And Inquisitor or Deathwatch Captain might have 7, while a Storm Trooper seargent might have 1 or 2.

Sound good?

[Torquemada Coteaz]

perhaps a mechanicus xeno-biologist will offer a +1WS and +1BS or reroll to 1 to hits per phase for an inqie due to the XBs knowing xenos body layouts and weaknesses?

[Ikarus]

Hmm, I can open up a Rules Developement board, if you guys wish. And move this topic in the new place

[Grandmaster Ezra Godfrey]

Sure Ikarus, that would be great!

Oh and Inquisitor Rosenadel, the idea seems great, but seems to follow of faith points a bit to much and I feel here, if we really are going to make an Xenos Hunters Codex, we want as much original things as possible so that we don't go in the same path as the other Inquisitorial Ordo Codexes.

[Torquemada Coteaz]

So we are trying to do what GW think they can't do?
AWESOME!
I'll get right on it !
maybe if we enough good ideas, we can send them in to GW and they WILL have a xenos codex. WITH OUR STUFF!!!
*drools as i imagine the possibilities*
@Ikarus: I have a "DH adversary" dev thread under the title of "Kamakazie" menials, maybe taht should be moved too

[Inquisitor Rosenadel]

Originally Posted by Grandmaster Ezra Godfrey

Sure Ikarus, that would be great!

Oh and Inquisitor Rosenadel, the idea seems great, but seems to follow of faith points a bit to much and I feel here, if we really are going to make an Xenos Hunters Codex, we want as much original things as possible so that we don't go in the same path as the other Inquisitorial Ordo Codexes.

Well, the reason for Xeno-Points is that I think an Inquisitor would have much more access and permission to wield alien weapons than a Storm Trooper sergeant. So, by making Xeno-Points, you can limit how powerful of equipment and weapons they take, without messing around with the points they can take. It's really not like Faith-Points at all except that they are points given to models. Faith-Points allow "miraculus" chances to happen, and they are for the entire army, and you can only use them for faithul units, and then there's martyrs, etc. Xeno-Points merely put a restriction on the level of Xeno-equpiment or weaponry that individual models can have.

For example, I think an Inquisitor would be able to wield an Eldar Witchblade, but that a Storm Trooper sergeant would not. I think he would be able to wield a Tau Pulse Rifle, however, so that would be less points. It is basically a way to prevent models like Storm Trooper sergeant from a) being too powerful, and b) having inexplicable amounts of Xeno-tech when there is no way they would have a reason to have all of it.

Speaking of which, I will be working on Xeno-tech and psychic powers and they should be up soon.

[Grandmaster Ezra Godfrey]

I see, thanks for clearing that up for me!

So, anybody have any ideas for the codex? I was kind of leaning toward the Space Marine Codex choices, but with Inquisitorial choices mixed in.

Headquarters:
-Inquisitor Lord
-Captain (w/ Deathwatch Kill-Team) [Mandatory?]
-Librarian (w/ Deathwatch Kill-Team)[Mandatory?]
-Chaplain

Elites:
-Inquisitor
-Officio Asassinorium Asassin
-Deathwatch Marines in Terminator Armour
-[Some Kind of Original Xenos Unit like Daemonhosts]

Troops:
-Deathwatch Tactical Squads [Might be allocated to Fast Attack to gain Deep Strike?]
-Inquisitorial Stormtroopers
-[Maybe Some Kind of Xenos Allie like Kroot Mercs or Orc Mercs?]

Fast Attack:


Heavy Support
-[Maybe a Land Raider and LRC?]
-Dreadnought [Fluffy?]
-Orbital Strikes

[Inquisitor Rosenadel]

Well, I don't think all the Deathwatch is fluffy. They are very rare, rarer than Grey Knights, I believe. Just not as well trained and spiritually strong. I think the Terminators are a good idea, but Veterans are already in Deathwatch squads, as well as Heavy weapons (and some cool special weapons!). And they can already teleport. I would suggest going online to the GW site and looking for the Deathwatch rules to see what has already been included in their entry.

I like Grandmaster Godfrey's idea of Ork mercenaries... they were one I had not thought of... I also know of the Loxatl from "Traitor General" in the Gaunt's Ghosts series. They are brutal hand-to-hand, and carry flechette weapons.

I am leaning more towards the previous ideas: that Alienhunters will always be allies to another army. I think it makes sense, because the majority of the Imperium's fighting forces deal with the Xenos threat regularly. So, I think to make them a little more Anti-Xeno specialized, perhaps there could be Imperial Guard doctrines that could be taken, or Space Marine advantages. I know Space Marines already have one that lets them gain Preferred Enemy against Eldar (Craftworld and Dark), Tyranids, and Orks.

[Ikarus]

Originally Posted by Inquisitor Rosenadel

Well, I don't think all the Deathwatch is fluffy. They are very rare, rarer than Grey Knights, I believe. Just not as well trained and spiritually strong. I think the Terminators are a good idea, but Veterans are already in Deathwatch squads, as well as Heavy weapons (and some cool special weapons!). And they can already teleport. I would suggest going online to the GW site and looking for the Deathwatch rules to see what has already been included in their entry.

I like Grandmaster Godfrey's idea of Ork mercenaries... they were one I had not thought of... I also know of the Loxatl from "Traitor General" in the Gaunt's Ghosts series. They are brutal hand-to-hand, and carry flechette weapons.

I am leaning more towards the previous ideas: that Alienhunters will always be allies to another army. I think it makes sense, because the majority of the Imperium's fighting forces deal with the Xenos threat regularly. So, I think to make them a little more Anti-Xeno specialized, perhaps there could be Imperial Guard doctrines that could be taken, or Space Marine advantages. I know Space Marines already have one that lets them gain Preferred Enemy against Eldar (Craftworld and Dark), Tyranids, and Orks.

There is a rumour saying how Alien Hunters will be combined into one book with the other two parts of the inquisition, seeing that little can be said about the AH. heh.

[Inquisitor Rosenadel]

Originally Posted by Ikarus

There is a rumour saying how Alien Hunters will be combined into one book with the other two parts of the inquisition, seeing that little can be said about the AH. heh.

I think that would be very cool! It's like what they're doing with Eldar and the Space Marines: if its minor enough changes, put it in the same Codex; if it's big enough, make a whole new codex!

I hope the codex is extra-big so they can have the same amount of fluff for each branch of the Inquisition, and not have to cut down on what they say.

[Torquemada Coteaz]

Yes I've heard bits of a similar "combined codex" rumor around
though very vague and i've generally ignored it.
And i agree with rosenadal that DW should appear even less often then GK. Also the only unit for DW thats fluffy is the tac squad :P because we know it exists.
EDIT: if they do combine the codecies. It's really the Special Characters, Artwork, Painting schemes and fluff i look forward to.
the army list i dont really care. its cool to play, but FLUFF&ART!!!!!!!

[Grandmaster Ezra Godfrey]

So, I edited the list that I posted earlier, and by taking a glance at it, there really isn't alot of current choices...We need some new, fluffly vehicles and units to get some choices into there!

I do agree that the only way Deathwatch will make it into a codex is if it's combined with another Codex...