HouseHammer

[JoeGuardsman]

I want to talk about making a new version of 40k. Imagine a time in the not too distant future and 5th edition is as bad as I'm afraid it might be. Games Workshop collapses and the gamers are left to fend for themselves. I don't want this to happen and I'm going to support 5th edition within reason but I want to have my bases covered. In this edition I want to talk with you guys and pick the best parts of 3rd, 4th and 5th edition and even a little bit of 2nd to possibly give the game some more complicated factors (since the game will only be for serious gamers at that point). I definitely want to use the 3rd, 4th, 5th system and not the 2nd ed. system which is a much better skirmish game than battle game.

I'm going to go in order so: Force Selection.

Use the Standard Force Organization chart but with the further limitation of percentages. 25% of your points must be Troops and no more than 20% can be spent on Heavy Support, Elites, HQ or Fast Attack.

This is adjusted for different missions and different armies. i.e. Night Lords can take more fast attack and less Heavy Support.

I would hold on to all of the scenarios and game types from all of the versions of 40k from 3rd on through Apocalypse. Variety is the spice of life.

I don't see anything wrong with the movement phase for troops, jet/jump packs, cavalry, etc.

I love the target priority rule, moving and rapid fire and much of the shooting phase but some things need to change.

Wound allocation should work like Fantasy and I believe I've read rumors that it will in 5th. Hits should be spread throughout the unit equally and variable Toughness and Armor Saves are no longer a problem.

The rumored fix for Rending is acceptable at: 6 to wound allows no armor saves and only adds +D3 to armor penetration after a 6.

The rumored run rule would be better as D3 inches without the ability to assault. I dislike the chance of a guardsman running as fast as a Chimera.

I don't know the rules for certain yet because 5th isn't published but enemy troops should not block line of sight. They changed it for a reason in 4th edition and I'm not happy that they are taking even half a step back.

[Warmaster Romulas]

i really like the movement and facing rules from 2nd
4 in walk
8 inch run but no shooting
that type of thing

[JoeGuardsman]

The only thing I have against that is there is no shooting at a unit before combat. Also it increases the movement of troops by quite a lot which then means you have to increase vehicle movement and in second ed. vehicle movement was rarely used to its fullest.

[Sir_Servo]

I would love to see the option of taking both Armour Save and Invunreable/Cover Saves. Always hated the fact that 40k said one or the other when Fantasy works just fine with both. Might make the points for some of those invunerable save wargears worth it.

In deed I would like to see the movement phase from 2nd ed return. the whole move 6" then get d3" is just lame. d3's always seem to end up being a 1 any way.

There are only two things that I see wrong with Rending right now. The first is that you can keep on rolling even if you get multiple 6's when pening armour, I think just rolling 2d6 + Str. for Pen when a 6 is rolled to hit a vehicle/dreadnaught would be fine. Second is the amount of things that have rending, Big Bugs, maybe some heavy weapons, so on and so forth.

I am sure there is more that I would like to change/revise, but that is all I can think of at the moment. I will post more when I think of them.

My two cents,
Servo

[Word Bearer 81007]

i personally will like the allocation of wounds to change like there planning in 5th i really hate the mix armor rule.

the only bad thing is i didn't play 3rd edition or before i started right at the beginning of 4the edition.

[JoeGuardsman]

That's OK because I doubt anything that was purely 3rd edition would make it in. I'd have to think long and hard on it but maybe that rule where you could shoot an over running unit even if they were engaged on that first turn but I don't think it is necessary in this version where you only massacre d6".

I do like the idea of cover and armor saves. The only thing is that I'd be afraid of balance and Marines just taking infantry and hunkering down. Maybe if more weapons took away cover saves.

The movement of 2nd edition was a large part of that game and there was a reason everything changed so much. It was because 2nd edition was not passable as a battle game and never could. That system should stick to Necromunda where it is one of the best skirmish systems on the market.

Something that I would like to see back from 2nd is more in-depth vehicle damage. I want locations and to keep track of some minor damage before my vehicle just can't move or can't shoot or is completely destroyed.

Also would like to see weapons able to fire at separate targets. It's silly the way it is now where my left and right sponson and my hull guns all face different arcs but I can't shoot at different targets and can't support different squads.

[lord marcus]

do you think someone would take over for GW?

[Warmaster Romulas]

i would also like to be able to throw grenades again
that is very key

[JoeGuardsman]

We would have to think of some rules for grenades. I hated throwing grenades in 2nd. It was far too clunky and slowed the game down ridiculously. Maybe if only one model per squad per turn could actually throw a grenade and the rest uses weapons. A ten man tactical squad throwing grenades with hit rolls, wound rolls, scattering, partials and armor saves could take 10-20 minutes.

I think that the GW IP is too valuable for the company to ever fall completely through the floor. In my dream a player or group of players picks up the IP and runs it with low overhead in a way similar to the way the game was when it was just a budding company.

[Warmaster Romulas]

more likely they are bought out by some gamer hating corp
that will kill it as we know

[JoeGuardsman]

Here is another topic about making 40k better if we got our hands on it. The biggest reason why many people say (and I agree with them) that 40k is not as tactical as fantasy is because 40k does not have as many restrictions as Fantasy does. Troops can see, move, shoot and assault in all directions, weapon ranges are longer etc.. Can you think of any restrictions that should be added to 40k to make the game better?

[TheKiller333]

*Screams* OVERWATCH!
As long as that's back, then i'll be fine.

[Warmaster Romulas]

multiple settings on plasma weaponry
that was a good one

[JoeGuardsman]

Yeah I agree whole heartedly with over-watch. It will give some more tactical flexibility to everyone and give guard the ability to handle assault move armies.