new senerio hostage negoation

[lynxrpken]

DEPLOYMENT
the hostage taker deployes in the location of the hostage usually in a building at the center of the board within 6 in of a ruined building or whatever you are holding the hostage in. the hostage is the attckers HQ unit or elite squad as the hostage taker chooses( this is because if you where really taking a hostage from your rich victem you would not say i'll take your daughter or gardiner you pick) the hostage taker picks. the attacker does not pick the board edge as they would in a normal battle but rather can if they choose attack from all sides or any combination there in.
attackers deployment is 6 inches from every board edge

special rules. the attacker decides on night fight or regular battle. this is because if I took a hostage the swat team would ultimatly decide what time to break the door down. attacker is limmited to one deep striking unit and no infaltration.

In a true hostage negoation both sides have to make decisions quickly and thus react to there respective enimys possitioning and tactics in a very short time. to represent this in game play we use a 15 min turn clock to compleate all activites including CC. rule revision for other player is that if you are in CC with someone on your turn and the clock runs out they can defend their CC possition even if you did not finish rolling before your turn ends and there clock starts this means if I am rolling CC I get 6 hits and my clock ends before I roll wounds I can not finish CC and roll wounds but the other player has a chance to defend before there turn begins.


OBJECTIVE the hostage takers objective is to keep the hostage

attackers objective is to get there hostage back and get him to the nearest board edge. however the hostage becomes a viable target once he is released ( he is relaeased once any of the attackers units come into base to base contact with him). if the hostage is shot in his excape the attacker looses his objective

GAME END

the game has a variable ending and can end as soon as 5 turns are compleat (we played with 4 turns on a 4x4 table 1500 points) standard variable game linth chart is used. if the hostage is not released and removed to a board edge in the allowed time he is automaticly shot by the hostage takers. also the game will end automaticly if the hostage is shot in the excape




OPTIONAL SPECIAL RULES

S.W.A.T. menaing special weapons and tactics are the units called in by the poliece to handle this type of situation they are armed with the best weapons and have access to the best gear. to represent this in the game the attacker may choose up to one squad to access one weapon they are normally not be allowed to carry. the secected squad is limmited to one of the weapon they choose. this means in the case of IG forinstance you could give a sniper rifel to the HSO's staff it does not mean that a antitank support squad could carry a 4th lascannon( this rule is the only one that is not tested but I think it is fair)
further the unit operating as the swat unit must be named at the begining of the game and as long as there weapon is ap4 or above the move or fire rule does not apply to them for up to D3 turned rolled for at the beggining of the battle.

WE HAVE U SURROUNDED: this is the rule that allowes the attacker to surround the hostage taker with his deployment he may however choose to attack from 1 or more board edge.

STORM THE BUILDING: Up to two units attacking the building may(edited) opt to make a sleet movment the turn they would enter the building during there shooting phase. this movment must be taken by all units uning it simultaniously. you may however attack from multipal entry points if there are multipal points on the structure.
edit++++++

OVERWATCH yes we are brining it back for those of u unfamilliar with it. it basicly means u can choose to not move fire or shoot with as many squads as you like during your turn. all units you do this to must be declaired as overwatchers. instead during your opponets turn if they move a unit in firing range of the unit which is overwatching you may opt to fire upon them. this is to simulate the fact that in this type of situation both sides are on edge with a hair trigger and very jumpy.

[Sir_Servo]

Vary nice...

How has this senario worked for you guys thus far? Was that the first game that you played using this senario?

I will definately have to run this one past my crew and play test it.

Thanks for posting the ruels,
Servo

[lynxrpken]

I edited some things at the bottom after confering with those who helped with this senerio in the first place.

as for your question we did not use a lot of the rules and there where kinks in the senerio that are compansated for by the special rules here. we are going to replay the battle this weekend and post revisions to the senerio as we see fit. of course if anyone playes it and would like to add or make a seguestion I would love to hear it. We of sourse are not going to think of everything.

to answer directly it was a very fun senerio a advanced play complex version of hold at all cost. very very fun. this is my first senerio ive created in this detail. if a costodian or two would happen to stumble across this at a time in the day they have 2 min to spare I would love a oppinion and critisizem

[Baron Spikey]

I heard someone say "Custodian"....

Sounds like a really cool scenario, I am a man who loves out of the ordianry battles with special rules. Was thinking of making a database of scenarios for the battlefield so people could choose one to play, when you've play tested this with the rules would you mind if I added it to the database?

[lynxrpken]

no not at all but on a side note we do a lot of these type of senerios. as you know in order to test the rules in game play drafting revising editing testing weeding out the crap that does not make sence and adding fluff takes A LOT OF WORK. I think anyone who does it right spends the 18+ hours to make a good senerio and test it, should be rewarded for there efforts; ) just a thought

other than that use whatever ones I post IDK. thats y I put it here

[TheKiller333]

Hey, Baron, I'd love to test any of those scenarios on BF for you =]
I want to get involved with it now.. so.. (I LOVE SPECIAL RULES!)
Oh and by the way, OVERWATCH RULEZ0RZ

[Baron Spikey]

of course any of the scenarios that you've play tested and come up with will definitely earn you Rep or something similar- it's an idea I'll be talking to Steve (and the other Custodians) about before I promise anything concrete.

[TheKiller333]

Okay, let me know how it goes =]

[lynxrpken]

thanks. as for everyone else please play this senerio and let me know what you think. it is my baby so of course I am going to love it but there may be a ugly in game flaw. LIKE the fact that in my original draft I gave a lot to the attacker and no rules to the defender BTW overwatch only applys to the hostage taker sorry forget to mention that

[Sir_Servo]

OK here are some of my observations thus far on the senario

Originally Posted by lynxrpken

DEPLOYMENT
the hostage taker deployes in the location of the hostage usually in a building at the center of the board within 6 in of a ruined building or whatever you are holding the hostage in. the hostage is the attckers HQ unit or elite squad as the hostage taker chooses( this is because if you where really taking a hostage from your rich victem you would not say i'll take your daughter or gardiner you pick) the hostage taker picks. the attacker does not pick the board edge as they would in a normal battle but rather can if they choose attack from all sides or any combination there in.

Chooseing an actual model out of your opponets army is a bit over powered. Oh look you have that nice 200+ point hq I will take that and now you have 10% less points than I do. Instead I recomend just using an extra model from the oppents army. It could be considered a high ranking Ambasider, or For Chaos maybe a important infiltrater that you want to get back to further the corruption of Mankind, etc. etc.

attackers deployment is 6 inches from every board edge

I think the deployment needs to be reworded a bit. The Hostage taker should be known as the Defender leaving your opponent to be the attacker. So here it goes

The Defender deploys all units before the Attacker. The defenders deployment zone depends on the size of the game for every 2,000 points the defender gets a 18" cricle around the Hostage to deploy in. For example a tournament board is usually on a 6'x4' board and is 1500-2000 points so a 18" deployment zone would be perfect. If you play a larger game you will need a larger board and therefore the deployment zone increases.

The attacker deploys his forces with in 6" of any/all board edges.

special rules. the attacker decides on night fight or regular battle. this is because if I took a hostage the swat team would ultimatly decide what time to break the door down. attacker is limmited to one deep striking unit and no infaltration.

I love this, however I think the defender needs something to balance this out, perhaps they get to set up the terrain?

In a true hostage negoation both sides have to make decisions quickly and thus react to there respective enimys possitioning and tactics in a very short time. to represent this in game play we use a 15 min turn clock to compleate all activites including CC. rule revision for other player is that if you are in CC with someone on your turn and the clock runs out they can defend their CC possition even if you did not finish rolling before your turn ends and there clock starts this means if I am rolling CC I get 6 hits and my clock ends before I roll wounds I can not finish CC and roll wounds but the other player has a chance to defend before there turn begins.

I appreciate what you are trying to do with this, but it makes it kind of confusing and what happens when there is a rules question or if you play larger battles. I think this should be an optional rule and not part of the senario

OBJECTIVE the hostage takers objective is to keep the hostage

Attacker must get into Base to base contact with hostage then it becomes part of the unit. Once this is achieved they must then get the hostage to thier own deployment zone

attackers objective is to get there hostage back and get him to the nearest board edge. however the hostage becomes a viable target once he is released ( he is relaeased once any of the attackers units come into base to base contact with him). if the hostage is shot in his excape the attacker looses his objective

See above

GAME END

the game has a variable ending and can end as soon as 5 turns are compleat (we played with 4 turns on a 4x4 table 1500 points) standard variable game linth chart is used. if the hostage is not released and removed to a board edge in the allowed time he is automaticly shot by the hostage takers. also the game will end automaticly if the hostage is shot in the excape

I think letting it go for a full 6 turns is a bit more fair for the Attackers. This gives them time to root out the defenders and they still get a few turns to get the hostage to thier deployment zone


OPTIONAL SPECIAL RULES

S.W.A.T. menaing special weapons and tactics are the units called in by the poliece to handle this type of situation they are armed with the best weapons and have access to the best gear. to represent this in the game the attacker may choose up to one squad to access one weapon they are normally not be allowed to carry. the secected squad is limmited to one of the weapon they choose. this means in the case of IG forinstance you could give a sniper rifel to the HSO's staff it does not mean that a antitank support squad could carry a 4th lascannon( this rule is the only one that is not tested but I think it is fair)
further the unit operating as the swat unit must be named at the begining of the game and as long as there weapon is ap4 or above the move or fire rule does not apply to them for up to D3 turned rolled for at the beggining of the battle.

I like being able to equip a squad with a weapon that they can't normally have, but the second part about letting them move and fire and such is just to clunky. I also think that it should have to be an Assault, Rapid Fire, or Close Combat weapon. Points should be taken from the oppropriate army list and armies are restricted to weapons that they are normally allowed to field. No giving your guardsmen Gausrifles.

WE HAVE U SURROUNDED: this is the rule that allowes the attacker to surround the hostage taker with his deployment he may however choose to attack from 1 or more board edge.

Unless I am reading this incorrectly, isnt this just about deployment?

STORM THE BUILDING: Up to two units attacking the building may(edited) opt to make a sleet movment the turn they would enter the building during there shooting phase. this movment must be taken by all units uning it simultaniously. you may however attack from multipal entry points if there are multipal points on the structure.
edit++++++

Fleet is a very powerful tool and I don't think it should be given freely. Prehaps giving it as an option for the attacker to upgrade 2 units to have fleet at a cost of +50 points per unit

OVERWATCH yes we are brining it back for those of u unfamilliar with it. it basicly means u can choose to not move fire or shoot with as many squads as you like during your turn. all units you do this to must be declaired as overwatchers. instead during your opponets turn if they move a unit in firing range of the unit which is overwatching you may opt to fire upon them. this is to simulate the fact that in this type of situation both sides are on edge with a hair trigger and very jumpy.

Love Overwatch! Enough Said

There is my two cents,
Servo

[lynxrpken]

I love this, however I think the defender needs something to balance this out, perhaps they get to set up the terrain

this is a good seguestion we where looking for something to balance out the defenders force


Chooseing an actual model out of your opponets army is a bit over powered. Oh look you have that nice 200+ point hq I will take that and now you have 10% less points than I do.

as for this ultimatly the hostage taker chooses who they take but I will consiter putting a point limit on the unit. also when we played I took a 180 point HQ unit and lost so it can be compensated for


as for the time clock issue. it is part of the senerio rules becaue it fits the senerio so well. and it is only a big issue if your playing a army with a lot of units like gaurd which I play and had no problem. in the event you need to look up a rule (you should know the rules for your army before you play) pause the clock. or if you need stats from your codex i looked mine up when seath was doing something else like rolling his saves


variable game linth is because no one knows when the hostage will be shot .



I also think that it should have to be an Assault, Rapid Fire, or Close Combat weapon. Points should be taken from the oppropriate army list and armies are restricted to weapons that they are normally allowed to field. No giving your guardsmen Gausrifles.


I ment one form your own codex. gaurdsmen with a sniper rifel with no doctorin is handy. and you pay for the weapon



Fleet is a very powerful tool and I don't think it should be given freely. Prehaps giving it as an option for the attacker to upgrade 2 units to have fleet at a cost of +50 points per unit

the reason you are not paying for the fleet movment is because you are not going to use it as a rule. It is one shot deal because your storming. you can make it with one or two units but they have to go at the same time.



OVERWATCH is only used by the defenders to compensate for this and some of the other things the attackers get that they dont

[Sir_Servo]

Reguardless of whom chooses the model to be the hostage it still out blanances points. I have played a much more dumbed down version of this senario in a Tournament called Traiter that a friend of mine created in witch each side gave up one model from one of their Troops choices. Sense both sides gave up one model and they were troops choices no one lost out on to many points.

I can see your point on the variable game length, I was just suggesting the standard 6 turn game to try out see if it works better/worse/no difference.

Perhaps instead of limiting the weapon to Rapid Fire/Assault/what have you, a points limit might be a better option, just food for thought. I know you want a sniper rifle in your HQ squad, but you can do that with the Light Infantry Doctorine from the Dex.

Fleet is still to powerful, even for just one turn, I say take away the stipulation of a one shot wonder and just charge them points. That way the attacker has a choice and it cuts down on the confusion of whom has it and when they can or can not use it. Trust me in general sticking with the KISS system is the best way to go. Gamers have a tendacy to find loop holes if things are to wordy or long winded.

My two cents,
Servo

[lynxrpken]

Originally Posted by Sir_Servo

Reguardless of whom chooses the model to be the hostage it still out blanances points. I have played a much more dumbed down version of this senario in a Tournament called Traiter that a friend of mine created in witch each side gave up one model from one of their Troops choices. Sense both sides gave up one model and they were troops choices no one lost out on to many points.

I could not see it being better and still make sence this way unless the attacker does not pay for the model in that event the model would be a dummy model used to resresent a abbassator. in that event it would have no attack charistrics just movment and standard transport rules would apply

I can see your point on the variable game length, I was just suggesting the standard 6 turn game to try out see if it works better/worse/no difference.

on this note I would say that there is only a 40% chance on the standard table that the game would actually end on turn 5 most likley it would continue

Perhaps instead of limiting the weapon to Rapid Fire/Assault/what have you, a points limit might be a better option, just food for thought. I know you want a sniper rifle in your HQ squad, but you can do that with the Light Infantry Doctorine from the Dex.

I dont want a sniper rifel for the HQ it was just the best example I came up with. I may consiter a 10-15 point limit on the chosen weapon

Fleet is still to powerful, even for just one turn, I say take away the stipulation of a one shot wonder and just charge them points. That way the attacker has a choice and it cuts down on the confusion of whom has it and when they can or can not use it. Trust me in general sticking with the KISS system is the best way to go. Gamers have a tendacy to find loop holes if things are to wordy or long winded.

on second thought this is a very good seguestion and will be modified in my nrxt posted revision assuming it passes in game testing. I think codex nids says 20 per squad for fleet. assuming this is right they would have the option to fleet or fire not both. regardless of upgrade or special ability. to counteract the possibility of a unit that gets two shooting phases or a special upgrade coming out with this ability in 5th which I doubt.

My two cents,
Servo

thanks for the oppinions though

[TheKiller333]

To be brutally honest, I think that Servo's rules balance the Scenario significantly. And on the case of the hostage model, you can't just go and say "Yep, I want your Chaos Lord" Or w/e the attacker is using, because that has to be the most unfair rule in gaming ever created. Servo's makes alot more sense, pick an extra unit.

Thanks
TheKiller

[lynxrpken]

Originally Posted by TheKiller333

To be brutally honest, I think that Servo's rules balance the Scenario significantly. And on the case of the hostage model, you can't just go and say "Yep, I want your Chaos Lord" Or w/e the attacker is using, because that has to be the most unfair rule in gaming ever created. Servo's makes alot more sense, pick an extra unit.

Thanks
TheKiller

I liked the idea of using a neutral unit but again a neutral unit is still a neutral unit. if you are not paying for it it dosent carry a combat stat( see above post)
I after thinking about it agreed with him and made a lot of concessions as to his oppinion

[lynxrpken]

updated post with the new listed rules are now up
also need those of you who contributed oppinion here to vote in the fleet or dinamic pole there