Rules to best represent Custodes

[Lord Commander Erus]

Ok.. Title says it all.. Now my question is this.. Most people IMMEDIATELY say GK... My issue therein is.. GK are all latently psykers... And Custodes are nulls/untouchables, by the old fluff. So there is just something that sits with me wrong to use GK for Custodes. I was thinking, maybe Deathwatch w/ Metal Storm or such ammo? I would also like your comments on why to use GK rules? It's always nice to hear the other side, and you guys may have opinions or ideas i've not considered. I'm trying to place more of a rules look on this than fluff though (so GK or Death Watch fluff itself has no barring, but the fact that Shrouding and such is a psychic ability throws me off them).

Thanks, and lets debate civilly.

[Ides]

hmmmm, how does the culexus assassin work? Not familiar with either set of rules but a general idea of how soulless works in game seems like a good start...

[Krom_stormbrow]

I think it's that GK have both storm bolters and nemesis force weapons. This seems to fit in a sense that custodians have storm bolters and the halberd things.

[Ides]

hmmm, and you can't very well give them force weapons, what with them being nulls...

[Drax]

Originally Posted by Krom_stormbrow

I think it's that GK have both storm bolters and nemesis force weapons. This seems to fit in a sense that custodians have storm bolters and the halberd things.

i'd agree. simply don't use the psychic powers, and in all cases except the Grand Master, the Halbard is just a power weapon at most anyway, and with the Grand Master, you could simply term the effects of the force weapon as a killing stroke.

[Inquisitor Rosenadel]

Erus, Krom, and Ides, you have all just given me a good idea for representing the Custodes: mix all of them!

GK weapons and skills, Deathwatch armour and perhaps special ammo, and Culexus/GK hybrid abilities! I'll post a rule set once I get it all down on electronic paper.

As an aside, sod you all for giving me ideas! I'm supposed to be studying quantum mechanics!

EDIT: Erus, are you looking for friendly-games rules, or a legal army to represent them?

[Lord Commander Erus]

Originally Posted by Inquisitor Rosenadel

Erus, Krom, and Ides, you have all just given me a good idea for representing the Custodes: mix all of them!

GK weapons and skills, Deathwatch armour and perhaps special ammo, and Culexus/GK hybrid abilities! I'll post a rule set once I get it all down on electronic paper.

As an aside, sod you all for giving me ideas! I'm supposed to be studying quantum mechanics!

EDIT: Erus, are you looking for friendly-games rules, or a legal army to represent them?

Ideally right now, i'll just have 10 power armored Custodes and one Terminator. So, mainly just rules for friendly games (I doubt Wolfpack would mind!). Hit me up on MSN if you want, and we can hash out these rules, possibly using the mini set Cag made a while back for some good basis?

[Torquemada Coteaz]

Hmm... well what you COULD do is just have them as GK,
and keep all the abilities (but say that they are generated by the null instead of the latent psy-abilities)
It works.

That, and maybe drop in soulless for some extra PTS.

Oh and i just read rosenadel's post. yeah that's basically what i mean

[Templar Mikeel]

Didn't Cag develop a set of rules for the Custodes?

[Torquemada Coteaz]

Yeah I thought we had a huge thread about it?

[Lord Commander Erus]

He did, but they're not quite what I am looking for. And he didn't cover a Custodes termie at all. And i'm sorry, but power armor is power armor.. I don't nessecarily think every custode would have artificer armor.

[Inquisitor Rosenadel]

Here's what I came up with. Sorry I wasn't around last night, Erus.

They have Grey Knight stats, with the following rules:
Weapons: Guardian Spear
Equipment: Frag and Krak Grenades, Vaccus Armour

Guardian Spear:
Storm Bolter
+2 S, Power Weapon (ALL Custodes)

Vaccus Armour:
Etherium from the Culexus rules (except it works as long as the Captain is alive)

If a psyker wishes to use a psychic power on a squad of Custodes and passes its psychic test, then roll a D6. on a 4+ the power may not be used. Custodes are not affected by minor psychic powers at all.

Psychic Abomination from Culexus rules

For Terminators, perhaps: Armour acts as a Null Rod instead of Etherium as long as the Brother-Captain-equivalent is alive. Terminators would have GK Terminator stats.

This is all just from what I've gathered the Custodes are like, and trying to focus on the null aspect, like "inverse" Grey Knights.

[Torquemada Coteaz]

Oi but they are basically power armour.
I mean, they ARE custodes, the armour ARE ornamented and very awesome + archaic.
It fits description quite well.

the only thing is that it never explicitly STATED that they were artificer armour. Plus arty is just PA but a bit better. Like a PA with a few more cardboard sheets taped on or whatever.

[wolfpack]

Well I have to agree...GK rules in general with a few tiwsts from the culexus and I thin Rosie hit it dead on...I haven't got it yet...but isn't there a special rule on Nulls in the WH dex?...perhaps it's wishful thinkin on my part...or maybe it was the DH dex...but coulda swore I read it somewhere..

[Inquisitor Rosenadel]

Originally Posted by wolfpack

Well I have to agree...GK rules in general with a few tiwsts from the culexus and I thin Rosie hit it dead on...I haven't got it yet...but isn't there a special rule on Nulls in the WH dex?...perhaps it's wishful thinkin on my part...or maybe it was the DH dex...but coulda swore I read it somewhere..

There is a "Null Rod" in the DH codex. If you take it, no one can target you with psychic powers, and you can't use any yourself. In the WH codex, there are Penitents, which absorb psychic powers, and give you a 4+ save against psychic powers if there's one, 2+ if there's more than one.

and thanks!

[Lord Commander Erus]

Originally Posted by Inquisitor Rosenadel

There is a "Null Rod" in the DH codex. If you take it, no one can target you with psychic powers, and you can't use any yourself. In the WH codex, there are Penitents, which absorb psychic powers, and give you a 4+ save against psychic powers if there's one, 2+ if there's more than one.

and thanks!

Hmmm... Null effects eh?

[Inquisitor Rosenadel]

Originally Posted by Lord Commander Erus

Hmmm... Null effects eh?

Indeed. If they are all Nulls, then they would have some sort of effects like that of Null Rods, or Culexus, or Penitents (that's the penitents from the WH Inquisitor retinue, not penitent engines). And if there's a lot of them, you might consider making a rule that makes a whole nullificatin field! Especially if this is for an Apoc game, make a Datasheet! In fact, I think I'll go make one right now...

[Lord Commander Erus]

Originally Posted by Inquisitor Rosenadel

Indeed. If they are all Nulls, then they would have some sort of effects like that of Null Rods, or Culexus, or Penitents (that's the penitents from the WH Inquisitor retinue, not penitent engines). And if there's a lot of them, you might consider making a rule that makes a whole nullificatin field! Especially if this is for an Apoc game, make a Datasheet! In fact, I think I'll go make one right now...

Damn you man....Damn brains... Madnes...

[Torquemada Coteaz]

When you guys make them datasheets:
Email them my way first!

[Inquisitor Rosenadel]

Here's what I came up with for a Custodes Apoc Datasheet:

THE ADEPTUS CUSTODES
POINTS: 100+MODELS
The Adeptus Custodes have even been the Emperor’s Guardians, fighting at His side, resplendent in their golden armour and Aquila heraldry. However, they are sometimes sent by the Emperor as His envoys, and to assist his Space Marine Legions in their Great Crusade to rid Humanity of its enemies.

Formation:
1 Centurion
0-1 Terminator Squad
1+ Custodes Squad

Special Rules:
Guardian Spear: Counts as a Storm Bolter with a Power Weapon that gives +2 Strength.
Vaccus Wards: If a Custode (Centurion, Custodes Terminator Squads, and Custodes Squads) is targeted by a psychic power from a psyker that has passed its psychic test, roll a D6. On a 3+, the power does not affect the targeted Custode.
Nullification Field: If the Centurion, and at least two Captains are on the table, draw a polygon between them (a triangle if Centurion and two Captains, a square if Centurion and 3 Captains, etc.). Any psyker within or touching this polygon must take any psychic tests on 3D6 and take the highest.


Centurion
Pts WS BS S T W I A Sv Ld
Centurion 170 6 5 4 4 3 5 4 3+ 10
Equipment: Spear of Fate, Refractor Field (5+ Invulnerable Save), Frag and Krak Grenades, Power Armour, Master-Crafted Vaccus Wards
Options: May replace Refractor Field, Frag and Krak Grenades with Terminator Armour for +15 points.

Special Rules:
Independent Character: The Centurion is an Independent Character as per the Warhammer 40000 Rulebook. However, he may only join a Custodes Terminator Squad or Custodes Squad.
Spear of Fate: Master-Crafted Guardian Spear (both Storm Bolter and power weapon) that ignores Invulnerable saves.
Master-Crafted Vaccus Wards: The Centurion is unaffected by psychic powers.
Soulless: Any unit with a model within 12” of the Centurion has their Leadership reduced to 7, unless it would be lower. This does not affect other Soulless units.
Psychic Abomination: Any psyker within 6” of the Centurion must pass a Morale check or fall back. If the psyker is part of a unit, the unit will fall back as well.

Custodes Terminators
Pts WS BS S T W I A Sv Ld
Captain 60 5 4 4 4 1 4 2 2+ 10
Terminator 45 5 4 4 4 1 4 2 2+ 10
Squad: 1 Captain and 4-9 Terminators
Equipment: Guardian Spear, Terminator Armour, Vaccus Wards.
Options: The squad may take a Land Raider transport for +250 points as long as the squad numbers 5 models.

Special Rules:
Focus: As long as the Captain in the Custodes Terminator Squad is alive, the unit has the Soulless special rule.
Soulless: Any unit with a model within 6” of the Custodes Terminator Squad has their Leadership reduced to 7, unless it would be lower. This does not affect other Soulless units.
Psychic Abomination: Any psyker within 6” of the Custodes Terminator Squad must pass a Morale check or fall back. If the psyker is part of a unit, the unit will fall back as well.

Custodes Squad
Pts WS BS S T W I A Sv Ld
Captain 45 5 4 4 4 1 4 2 3+ 10
Custode 30 5 4 4 4 1 4 2 3+ 10
Squad: 1 Captain and 4-9 Custodes
Equipment: Guardian Spear, Power Armour, Vaccus Wards, Frag and Krak Grenades.
Options: The squad may take a Land Raider transport for +250 points.

Special Rules:
Focus: As long as the Captain in the Custodes Squad is alive, the unit has the Soulless rule.
Soulless: Any unit with a model within 6” of the Custodes Terminator Squad has their Leadership reduced to 7, unless it would be lower. This does not affect other Soulless units.
Psychic Abomination: Any psyker within 6” of the Custodes Terminator Squad must pass a Morale check or fall back. If the psyker is part of a unit, the unit will fall back as well.

EDIT: Huh, this doesn't look that good. If you want the Word Doc, e-mail me.