Any players?

[JoeGuardsman]

I'm wondering if there are any High Elf players on the board. I can't roll my way out of a plastic bag with my High Elves but I do have alot of tactics and ideas if anyone wants to work on some threads. I have about 6,000 points and it's closer to 10,000 if I put my old stuff back together but I just cant bring myself to put the old silverhelms and dragon princes on the board with the new models. Although I still use the old silverhelm champion with the unicorn helm, he looks pretty cool still plus he is "Pillow man". In a couple of editions ago in fantasy back when champions where 1 wound characters bought in the character section this champion fought for turn after turn while surrounded by orks and beastmen. Killing minotaurs and orcs alike, I passed so many armor saves it really was legendary. He would not die until my friend resorted to using the Foot of Gork which was a template in that edition and you could use it on people in combat. The champion was stomped finally when I could take no armor saves while my friend killed 4 orks 3 beastmen and a minitaur with it.

[a fallen goldenage]

i play High elves, way more offten then i do 40K. I'm around 3K or so depending on how i equip things. I play a mainly static force, but i'm trying to move away from a pure static.

[Vlad Von Carstein]

Nice....high elfs are just annoying.......how ever they have tons of great models...and wait...did you say 10,000?

*insert vampires booking it here*

AHHH WHERE OUT NUMBERED 5 TO 1!

But really do you use the high elf dragon?

[a fallen goldenage]

i have yet to use any dragon other then then Dragon mage. dragons are good and all, but they need support. sure they can rend men to peaces and break regiments in a trun, not to mention what the Character on top is doing, but all it takes is a flank or a rear charge and you can break it. i find the PG to be the best unit it the book, but that just me

[Vlad Von Carstein]

You do have a point the dragons are high costed and i have never had a problem killing one.....(charging a skel unit with my lord(with 20 grave guard)\5 dire wolfs\2 vampires close enough to flank you....not a good idea.

[fuegan17]

stick a null stone on a prince and charge your vampire lord and watch your vamp die instantly and your army crumble.

[a fallen goldenage]

yea, but i was playing a dragon that wouldn't happen there would be helms or DP in support. and if it did happen i'd challage and more likely then uterly crush your lord or the champ if your (if your lord is cowerdly). so if your champ exspets i'll win by one, if your lord or other vamp exspets i'll probly win by 2 or more. and how the hell did you charge a dragon? the fast unit in your army moves 16"?? the dragon move 20". the dragon almost always gets the charge on infanty (unless it's locked in combat), there was a few expestions, but i'm not going into that right now. and fi you had all of that in charge range i'd just fly over you a pick on some small you and make you fallow me around the bored or if i really had to just flee

[JoeGuardsman]

You aren't going to get very far by charging the front of a Grave Guard unit that has a Vampire Lord even with a Dragon. The champion will just accept and even if you do roll well and get the full overkill bonus then you win by one as long as he doesn't have the banner that gives him 4 rank bonus or warbanner. Either way both parties are likely to stay in place. The Vampire can then invocation a new champion for the unit and repeat the process or take the challenge with the Vampire. The elf goes first and his attacks manage to do nothing and the vampire responds with re-rolls to hit and 2's to wound. The elf would get a 6+ save (we are talking about Null Stone right). It is way too risky because the dragon will then have to fight the vamp with its wardsave. All in all its too risky for both of these lords and I wouldn't do it. The eternal challenge is the more likely situation until something like a Wargulf comes up and adds to the fight. There are also other factors like the Drakenhoff banner and the challenge being taken by a Wight King with accursed armor being supported by a Crown of Commandment from a Lord. Full overkill bonus isn't as likely. There are better ways to get rid of a vampire lord with elves, thats all I'm saying.

I have a ton of points for the elves but I never really use all of them. I tend to play 2,250 point games and have never used a dragon but for once in a 6,000 point game. Here is my current list.

Noble on Chariot w/ Reaver Bow, Heavy Armor, Shield. 216 points.
Noble w/ Amulet of Light, Great Weapon, Heavy Armor, Shield. 114 points.
Mage w/ Lvl 2, Tricksters Pendant. 165 points.
Mage w/ Lvl 2, Jewel of Dusk, Dispel Scroll. 170 points.

14 Spearmen w/ FC. 151 points.
10 Archers. 110 points.
10 Archers. 110 points.

10 White Lions w/ FC. 190 points.
10 Sword Masters w/ FC. 180 points.
6 Dragon Princes w/ Dragon Horn, FC. 255 points.
5 Reavers w/ bows. 95 points.
7 Shadow Warriors. 132 points.

3 Repeater Bolt Throwers. 300 points.
1 Great Eagle. 50 points.

I managed to play to a Draw yesterday despite failing Leadership Checks that were in the double digits. It's a thinking mans list.

[Drax]

Originally Posted by a fallen goldenage

i have yet to use any dragon other then then Dragon mage. dragons are good and all, but they need support. sure they can rend men to peaces and break regiments in a trun, not to mention what the Character on top is doing, but all it takes is a flank or a rear charge and you can break it. i find the PG to be the best unit it the book, but that just me

thats a hell of a lot of units and points to dedicate to killing a dragon!

hell, it would be worth taking a dragon just to tie that lot up!

[a fallen goldenage]

yea but in a really game no one in there right mind would throw that much at a dragon. most people shoot them with things like cannons, bolt throwers, ect. and the reason you would noramly put a character is to break units on trun one, not get drawn into a long slug fest. and if you want to tie a unit(s) up the Phoenix Guard are probly the best unit to do it with.

[JoeGuardsman]

Yeah I've had a unit of Phoenix Guard win fights against Shaggoths. That save is no joke.

[Drax]

Originally Posted by a fallen goldenage

yea but in a really game no one in there right mind would throw that much at a dragon. most people shoot them with things like cannons, bolt throwers, ect. and the reason you would noramly put a character is to break units on trun one, not get drawn into a long slug fest. and if you want to tie a unit(s) up the Phoenix Guard are probly the best unit to do it with.

oh i absolutely agree - all i meant is that if ever i found out i were to face vlad, first thing i'd do is buy a dragon

[JoeGuardsman]

Actually I might think about getting an Archmage. Last thing I want is to have to kill Vlad twice. Otherwise I'd just be avoiding him.

[fuegan17]

my prince on dragon is insane in fact he was able to kill tyrion.(lol high elf vs high elf)

[JoeGuardsman]

I just can't get past the army list writing stage. I see the point value and just give up right there.

[a fallen goldenage]

why?? don't like math??

[Drax]

lol - i think he means he cannot justify that amount of points

but then i also think you may have got that.

[JoeGuardsman]

Yeah I like my current list. Only two units break the 200 point mark. It means that if I see and angry chaos lord or vampire or tyrant I can't go toe to toe with it with anything I have. Which makes the game a little more difficult sometimes but if I play it right I should never have to fight those things unless it is on my terms. Also Sword Masters and White Lions are pretty solid against angry characters.

A dragon lord means I lose three of my units while a Dragon Mage means I lose 2 and in both cases I lose one of my characters.

[fuegan17]

yeah but a prince with null stone can DESTROY vampires, chaos lords, tyrants, etc. he is a general killer. very effective against vamps.
null stone is a magic item that negates any magic items or spellcasting from anyone within 6".

[JoeGuardsman]

I never really bother to take him though because of the difficulty of actually getting the fights against the generals. Champions will always take you out of combat with the general and then you have to rely on a decent rolls so that you get enough overkill bonus that you don't have to take a break test. Against a champion unfortunately there is the problem of you cause 1 wound and 5 overkill bonus you get 6 points. If the Vampire has Walking Death (I think that's what the combat res. bonus is called) thats 1 point plus 3 ranks 1 banner and 1 outnumber for 6 points which means you'll have to take a test at -1 for losing to the musician. Throw in any BSB or Warbanner upgrades and you might have a real problem.

There are a lot of combos that I just can't justify because the challenge rule can nullify it fairly easily. The only thing that might work out for you in this situation is that as long as you aren't fleeing and the Vamp Lord is trying to stay out of combat obviously then the Vamp Lord won't be able to cast any spells.